Tournament Rules , Sites - Heart Grown Cold and friends...

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Konrad Klar
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CRF, Tournaments, Sites wrote:If you play a hazard forcing a Fallen-wizard to change site alignments, and he does not have the other version of the site he is moving to, you must provide it for him.
After that it is his responsibility to provide sites.
How good this rule regulates situations when FW player is forced to changing of site's version?

First - if FW opponent is hero, he has not option of providing the minion site from its LD.
There is no special site pool for purposes of playing of hazards . Rules on Card Effect Limitations (especially these concerning playability of Chance of Being Lost and Winds of Wrath) clearly indicate that such pool does not exist in game. So non-hero FW opponents are at privilaged postition here.

After that it is his responsibility to provide sites.
However problems does not end when Heart Grown Cold is succesfully played. Amount of SP can grow and FW may have non-overt companies at hero [-me_fh-] or [-me_bh-]. He is responsible to provide sites, but he may not have minion versions in his LD. Or contrarywise - FW non-overt companies may be at minion [-me_fh-] or [-me_bh-] and amount of SP may be lowered, FW may not have hero versions of the sites in LD.
What then?

Similar problems can be observed even if Heart Grown Cold etc. are not in play. In result of losing Orc, Troll character or certain ally, overt FW company may become non-overt. Or if the Counterfeit is discared, covert company may become overt. Again FW player may not have opposite versions of the sites in LD.

I believe that this ancient rule really need a alteration, however it should not be ad hoc, but rather it should conform with other game mechanics.
Searching in rules for solution of similar situations I've found the Legendary Hoard.
Playable on an at home Dragon manifestation. Target Dragon's automatic attack cannot be canceled. Rotate this card 90ř each time a manifestation of target Dragon is played. If the site receiving the Dragon's automatic-attack is untapped, a number of items may be played there do not tap the site: not rotated: 1 item; rotated once: 2 items; rotated twice or more; 3 items. If target dragon is required to be discarded or removed from play, invert dragon on table until this card is discarded or removed from play. Discard this card when any item is played at target Dragon's lair that taps the site. Can not be duplicated on a given Dragon.
Underline mine.

Underlined text is example of dealing with situation when necessary host card is not available (is no longer legaly in play in this particular case).
I think that it may be base for regulation of situation when FW is forced to changing of site's version and he does not have a appropriate card in LD.
Company's site would be inverted (rotated by 270 degrees if tapped) and it whould suffer an additional restrictions - e.g. could not be entered in site phase. Generally idea is that such site should only serve purpose of determining a company's position.
Not having of some version of sites in LD should not be helpful circumstance for FW player (and should not be adversity for its opponent).

Any thoughts, ideas, etc.?
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miguel
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I've never seen this to be an issue. If a player doesn't have a site card available, they have always been able to borrow one from the tournament organizer or another player there.
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Konrad Klar
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Heh..
I was under impression that the site card must come from FW's opponent's pool, especially that the Rules of Etiquette says about proxies used as replacement of marked cards "provided by the tournament coordinator".
If FW's opponents has such freedom of acquisition cards that he must deliver, then actually no problem.

Sorry for being too strictly and for reading rules too seriously/literally. :)
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Manuel
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IIRC somewhere in the rules say that the opponent must provide with sites of his own site deck or the hazard will have no effect.

Yeah, I have seen issues with this. In fact, someone tried this trick on me while playing on GCCG. I played Heart Grown Cold and he intentionally didn't have minion version sites of his free holds. This way I couldn't go there with any of my companies, neither my agents.

I need to find that thing in the rules, though, but my opponent seemed pretty sure, and I think I have seen that rule in the past.

However, maybe they just cheat on me :P
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miguel
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Manuel wrote:Yeah, I have seen issues with this. In fact, someone tried this trick on me while playing on GCCG. I played Heart Grown Cold and he intentionally didn't have minion version sites of his free holds. This way I couldn't go there with any of my companies, neither my agents.
Dude... LAME! :x

I hope you won. :wink:
Sauron
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And this is why I always carry a complete play set of sites. All Balrog, WH, Minion, and Hero sites. :D

On gccg, you can just pull sites from out of play, unless the guy was being a total dick.
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Konrad Klar
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As such total dick I have question:
If you are hero, you also use your minion sites pool for purpose of this rule:
If you play a hazard forcing a Fallen-wizard to change site alignments, and he does not have the other version of the site he is moving to, you must provide it for him.After that it is his responsibility to provide sites.
?
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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