[FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

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Shapeshifter
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[FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Shapeshifter » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:35 pm

This is the ressource part of the deck I played in the finals of Worlds 2017 in Cologne. It is the deck vs. Hero and Fallen Wizard but the deck vs. Minion differs only slightly. The whole deck lists may be downloaded at www.fallen-gandalf.net.

The main idea of this deck is that you fetch hero ressources with your orc companies at hero dark-holds. You usually won't play your Wizard (he is only in your sideboard) but bring in orc scouts at their home sites, like Cirith Ungol, Minas Morgul or Carn Dûm, every turn. The orc scouts cancel the automatic-attack at their home sites with either Orc Stealth, Ruse or Orc Quarrels and play a hero greater item there for 4 MP!! The starting orc company (company size is 2 because of the two orc scouts) helps gathering items at Carn Dûm and/or Mount Gundabad and play The Warg-king and Gollum. Finally up to 3 orc companies will move to border-holds like Southron Oasis, Henneth Annun or Lossadan Camp to play the Mischiefs (from Sideboard). Be sure to always have enough canceller in hand and hope that your opponent doesn't run a Nazgûl hazard strategy :wink:
Galdor and Wacho move on first turn quite safely to Grey Havens in order to play the Elves of Lindon sooner or later. If Farmer Maggot is in play they (or Wacho and Annalena) move with the help of Sneakin' to a Ruins and Lairs like Weathertop, cancel the auto-attack with the Farmer and take a cart ride to the Old Forest to play Tom Bombadil.
Because you don't play your wizard you need to watch your GI. Gandalf's Friend, Saw Further and Deeper and Wizard's Myrmidon help. The downside of not playing Gandalf is mainly that you can access your sideboard ressources only with Longbottom Leaf and Weigh all Things - beware of Blind to the West and Ire to the East! Apart from the fact that you can bring in characters at their home sites the whole game the main advantages of not playing your wizard is that your opponent cannot halve his hazard limit to access his sideboard, he cannot corrupt your Wizard and cannot play any of those nasty anti-Fallen hazards like Cruel Claw Perceived.

POOL (characters in bold are the best starting characters)
1 Ugluk
1 Ufthak
1 Grishnakh (goes to deck after draft)
1 Euog (Ulzog)
1 Lugdush

1 Annalena (goes to deck after draft)
1 Galdor
1 Wacho

1 Arinmir
1 Halbarad

1 Strange Rations
1 Shadow-cloak

1 Bad Company
1 Gandalf's Friend

AVATARS IN DECK
None

CHARACTERS IN DECK
1 Sly Southerner
1 Sly Southerner
1 Orc Sniffler
1 Orc Sniffler
1 Baduila

RESSOURCE DECK
1 A Nice Place to Hide
1 A Nice Place to Hide
1 Dark Tryst
1 Dark Tryst
1 Elves of Lindon
1 Farmer Maggot
1 Gatherer of Loyalties
1 Gollum
1 Great Patron
1 Longbottom Leaf
1 Longbottom Leaf
1 Orc Quarrels
1 Orc Stealth
1 Orc Stealth
1 Orcrist
1 Ruse
1 Ruse
1 Saw Further and Deeper
1 Scroll of Isildur [H]
1 Sneakin'
1 Sneakin'
1 The Mithril-coat [H]
1 The Warg-king
1 Thrall of the Voice
1 Voices of Malice
1 Voices of Malice
1 Weigh All Things to a Nicety
1 Weigh All Things to a Nicety
1 Wizard's Myrmidon
1 Wormsbane

SIDEBOARD
1 Legacy of Smiths
1 Mischief in a Mean Way
1 Mischief in a Mean Way
1 Mischief in a Mean Way
1 Never Refuse
1 Gandalf [F]
1 Grey Mountain Goblins
1 Hill-men [H]
1 Narsil [H]
1 Regiment of Black Crows
1 Scorba Roused
1 Tempering Friendship
1 The Names Among Them
1 Tom Bombadil
and 16 hazards

MP breakdown (normal/maximum):
characters 7/8
items 16/16
allies 4/6
factions 2/2
misc 4/7
33/39

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kober
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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by kober » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:58 pm

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

PS. What would you change for a two-deck game? Do you remove Ugluk, Arinmir and Halbarad if they don't make into the starting company?

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Shapeshifter » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:10 am

This deck is designed for 2-deck games. I remove Ugluk and Halbarad in any case, Arinmir can be a substitute for Annalena if opponent plays her in the starting company.

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by kober » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:06 am

I'm playtesting this deck and I'm wondering how do you play Baduila, what's the trick? Normally, FW may not bring into play any character with a mind greater than 5, so I assume it's meant to be played as an agent hazard...

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Shapeshifter » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:28 pm

Yes, Baduila is meant to be played as an agent hazard. He counts as a character (not as a hazard) for deck construction but cannot be played as such in a FW deck.

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by the Jabberwock » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:38 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:28 pm
Yes, Baduila is meant to be played as an agent hazard. He counts as a character (not as a hazard) for deck construction but cannot be played as such in a FW deck.
Do you think this is something we should address while cleaning up the rules? It seems inappropriate to have a card not count as a hazard in a deck where the card can only be played as a hazard.

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Shapeshifter » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:02 pm

the Jabberwock wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:38 pm
Do you think this is something we should address while cleaning up the rules? It seems inappropriate to have a card not count as a hazard in a deck where the card can only be played as a hazard.
Well, the Dream Card rules already address this issue: Agent characters that are not of the same race as your avatar (and thus cannot be played normally as characters) count as hazards for Lord players. It is a change that makes absolute sense to me but I am not sure if such is really needed for "normal" non-DC play. I am open to a disussion about a rules erratum, though :) .

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by the Jabberwock » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:00 pm

Thank you for the info and your opinion.

It would certainly make logical sense for an erratum for play with “normal rules.”

I will add this to the list to discuss in the future.

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Jiri » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:42 pm

You should have been disqualified :-) as you played illegal setup. You cannot have Baduila or any Agent with mind 7+ as a character due to FW cannot play it as character. Baduila can be in the deck as Hazard only. Still the deck looks great.

Wondering if Lucky search is better combination for the scout at Mordor, Alternatively move to undergalleries and play few items there, could be great combo..... You get additional item off your deck which could speed it up a bit. And yes missing Gandalf is pain :-( He is my most favourite hero as he can sideboard every turn due to untap. This is super powerful vs other wizards.

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:21 am

You can include whatever characters you want in your deck unless explicitly forbidden. Nowhere are FWs forbidden from including characters with greater than 5 mind in their deck. Otherwise, a card such as Thrall of the Voice could not be used to bring in a 6-minder.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Mordakai
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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Mordakai » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:38 pm

Tricksy fallen wizardses, precious. They put big mind agent as characters in deck, but then use them as agents, my precioussss

Perfectly legal.
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Jiri » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:57 pm

I never said you cannot use agents, but you cannot treat agents as character if the mind is 7+ including as FW cannot legally play it. You can only use these 7+ mind agents as hazard only. :-)

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by the Jabberwock » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:57 pm

Given the following statements from the CRF, how can you legally use this deck without a copy of Fallen Gandalf in it?
CRF wrote: You may not declare yourself as a specific Fallen-wizard unless you have his card in your deck.

You must select a specific Fallen-wizard and thus have at least one copy of him in your deck, because you must declare yourself as a specific one.
I am guessing that having one copy in your sideboard satisfies this requirement to have at least one copy in your deck?

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:49 pm

Jiri wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:57 pm
I never said you cannot use agents, but you cannot treat agents as character if the mind is 7+ including as FW cannot legally play it. You can only use these 7+ mind agents as hazard only. :-)
Why not?
CRF, Fallen Wizards wrote:Fallen-wizards can have a character with more than five mind, they just can't start with one or play one.
Again, there are no rules against FWs including characters with greater than 5 mind in their deck. There are even fewer rules about including characters with greater than 6 mind.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Re: [FALLEN GANDALF] Orc Scouts (without Wizard)

Post by Theo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:52 pm

And in fact Fallen Wizards must count agents as characters; they don't have a choice.
CRF wrote: Fallen-wizards use minion rules for agents, except where specified by the White Hand rules insert.
MELE wrote: Minion agents included in a Ringwraith's deck count as characters for the purposes of meeting deck requirements. However, during play, each minion agent may be played as either a character (i.e., as a minion character) or as a hazard (i.e., as an agent).
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.

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