Council of Elrond

I really enjoy the play style from the Fallen Pallando unofficial challenge deck (Deck Q), and since I have a relatively large collection but very little play experience (especially with Fallen Wizards), I am wondering what changes people would make it it? I have a pretty large collection of rares and cards from everything from Against the Shadow and The Balrog. I'm looking for something somewhat competitive.

Help?

EDIT for Updated List:

Pool:
1 Horn of Anor (TW)
1 Blazon of the Eye (LE)
1 Hidden Haven (WH) (for Ettemoors (M))
1 Asternak (LE)
1 Ulkaur the Tongueless (LE)
1 Halbarad (TW)
1 Bad Company (WH)
1 Beretar (TW)
1 Odoacer (LE)

Characters:
1 Tros Hesnef (LE)
1 Boromir II (TW)
3 Pallando [F] (WH)
1 Euog - Ulzog (WH)
1 Ill-favoured Fellow (WH)
1 Horseman in the Night (LE)

Resources:
2 Eyes of Mandos (DM)
2 Gifts as Given of Old (LE)
1 A Strident Spawn (WH)
2 Hall of Fire (DM)
2 Dark Tryst (AS)
1 Not Slay Needlessly (LE)
1 Truths of Doom (WH)
1 Palantír of Elostirion [M] (LE)
2 Weigh All Things to a Nicety (LE)
1 Hill Trolls (LE)
1 Goldberry (TW)
1 Misty Mountain Wargs (LE)
1 Horns, Horns, Horns (DM)
1 Crept Along Cleverly (WH)
2 Guarded Haven (WH)
2 Smoke Rings (DM)
1 Wizard's Myrmidon (WH)
1 Stone Trolls (LE)
1 Stave of Pallando (WH)
1 Mistress Lobelia (DM)
1 Pallando's Apprentice (WH)
1 Pallando's Hood (WH)
1 Fortress of the Towers (WH)

Hazards:
2 Withered Lands (TD)
2 An Unexpected Outpost (DM)
3 Doors of Night (LE)
2 Twilight (LE)
2 Cave-drake (LE)
3 Assassin (TW)
2 Neeker-breekers (TW)
3 Snowstorm (TW)
2 True Fire-drake (LE)
3 Long Winter (LE)
1 Adûnaphel (TW)
2 Nameless Thing (DM)
2 Peril Returned (TD)
1 Mouth of Sauron (TW)

Sideboard:
1 Noble Hound (DM)
1 Elwen (DM)
2 Muster Disperses (LE)
1 Ren the Unclean (TW)
2 River (LE)
2 Drowning Seas (TW)
1 Twilight (LE)
1 A Friend or Three (TW)
2 Lost in Free-domains (LE)
1 Marvels Told (TD)
1 Rolled down to the Sea (WH)
2 A Panoply of Wings (WH)
1 Greater Half-orcs (WH)
1 Voices of Malice (LE)
1 Anarin (DM)
1 Rangers of the North (TW)
2 The Way is Shut (DM)
2 Delver's Harvest (WH)
3 Half-orcs (WH)
2 Dwarven Light-stone (DM)

Well, that deck has an illegal starting company (MEWH p.4). The main problem is that you can't play the Troll without bad company, which leaves you without any Thralls if you want hidden haven, so you're using a different leader, and without Firiel, and maybe without one of the minor items, and so on. The starting company needs to be overhauled.

I have seen these decks. It's for people that dislike dice. This particular deck looks exceptionally slow, it doesn't really play or do anything? There are 4 SB effects but a million cards in the SB?

For rares, there is Ancient Black Cheese in the larder. So then you want to start Firiel? But that screws up the ettenmoors.

It's Lobelia vital? There's Token to get her and also Lobelia SB. There's also Tom.

After rectifying the illegality of the starting company and a few Discord convos, I have a list mocked up. I would really appreciate any feedback.

I have no clue what Ancient Black Cheese in the Larder is.

Lobelia was in the original list, and the tutoring ability seems decent. Tom would be cool, but I'm not sure what to substitute him for.

I guess just don't play the Fallen Pallando Deck Q vs the Fallen Saruman Deck O since they are both squatting at Ettenmoors and you will have to "set aside" your Hidden Haven during the draft, and neither of you will get to play it.

Banalitybob wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:21 pm 1 Hidden Haven (WH) (for Ettemoors (M))

You cannot play Hall of Fire on minion Ettenmoors because "a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card."

Still, the only restriction on the Troll's site is: "Fallen-wizard's overt companies must use hero sites for Shadowholds, Dark-holds, and minion Darkhavens. They must use minion sites for Border-holds, Free-holds, and hero Havens." Meaning that the overt company can use this rule: "Fallen-wizard's companies may freely use either minion or hero Ruins & Lairs sites on a site per site basis (subject to the restriction below)."

And then: "In order to play a non-Fallen-wizard resource that would normally tap a site, either the site and the resource to be played must both be
hero cards or they must both be minion cards. For these purposes, a Fallen-wizard site card (or any Wizardhaven) is both a hero site and a minion site."

Banalitybob wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:21 pm Ancient Black Cheese in the Larder is.

Fallen-wizards are known to keep ancient black cheesy axes beneath their hideouts. But its hidden by shadow-magic.

I doubt I'm going to run into much Fallen Saruman, because this is for a non-challenge deck local league. I could switch it up, run Firiel and no Bad Company package, and go to the Worthy Hills and then go to the under deeps to get Aiglos.

CDavis7M wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:00 am Well, that deck has an illegal starting company (MEWH p.4). The main problem is that you can't play the Troll without bad company, which leaves you without any Thralls if you want hidden haven, so you're using a different leader, and without Firiel, and maybe without one of the minor items, and so on. The starting company needs to be overhauled.

I thought there was/is a ruling which says it is legal:

http://meccg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 3&start=15

is this overruled?

Glorfindel2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:45 pm

CDavis7M wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:00 am Well, that deck has an illegal starting company (MEWH p.4). The main problem is that you can't play the Troll without bad company, which leaves you without any Thralls if you want hidden haven, so you're using a different leader, and without Firiel, and maybe without one of the minor items, and so on. The starting company needs to be overhauled.

I thought there was/is a ruling which says it is legal:

http://meccg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 3&start=15

is this overruled?

There is a CoE ruling from Brian, which of course, no one bothered to quote in that discussion. But the CoE ruling is invalid. Not only does it go against the rules, but ICE Netrep Ichabod ruled that Thrall of the Voice cannot be used to play an Orc or Troll. And this is clear from the rules.

By the CoE Charter, the CoE cannot overrule ICE without ratification. And this is not an instance where the CoE Netrep was attempting to change the rules. They just didn't understand how the game works.

Ichabod wrote:ICE Digest 55:
Craig Ichabod O'Brien Mar 12, 1998 12:00 AM

>Can Thrall of the Voice be played to play a Troll character when Bad Company is
>not in play?

No.

------------
ICE Digest 88:
Question: Hey, I was wondering if anyone could answer me this question... While a fallen wizard, do you need to have Bad Company in play to play with Half-Orc characters??

Answer: Either that or a Strident Spawn. That is required to bring them into play. Once they are in play the no longer care.

Why didn't the CoE Netrep bother to read ICE's rulings? I don't know. Why didn't they make the correct ruling from the rules? I don't know, but my suspicion from the evidence is that they didnt understand how the rules work.

If you read that other post linked, and the CoE rulings, and other discussion, you will see many people confused about how the game works. They are discussing "card vs rule" and "card vs card" when this had nothing to do with rulings. There is no such thing as "card vs rule" in MECCG. Nothing in the official rules books or rulings from ICE ever discussed "card vs rule"

There is only:
(A) Card > CRF Ruling (from the CRF Introduction itself)
(B) specific restriction > general allowance. (From various ICE rulings and also from plain logic)

The White Hand rules specifically restrict orcs and trolls from being played and Thrall of the Voice only generally allows "one character" to be played. This is not sufficient to overcome to MEWH restriction "you may NOT play Orc and troll characters until you have played the appropriate card (eg Bad Company)."

Think about it: if the game worked such that "card > rule" then a Fallen Wizard player could play Elrond using A Chance Meeting. Clearly the CoE Netep's idea of the rules is wrong.

Bad Company overcomes the restriction because it specifically mentions Orcs and Trolls. Thrall of the Voice does not.

Notice that there is also a specific restriction against starting with Agents in the starting company and how Thrall specifically overrides that restriction.

Thrall can be used to play Agents, but not Orcs or Trolls.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=4170&hilit=thrall

Thee are many incorrect CoE rulings. The CoE Netreps didn't understand how to interpret the rules and they often didn't bother to read them. There are even several instances where they just admit that they don't understand and then just came up with some inconsistent rulings going against ICEs rulings and the rules (see CoE rulings on Thrall, anti-Nazgul resources, Passive Conditions, Annotation 26 and Plague of Wights, the hazard limit, and on and on).

The problem is that there are many players that don't play by CoE rulings. They play by the old ICE rulings. And, as it turns out, most people only play according to the CoE rulings that they like to abuse (see Thrall and Crown of Flowers) but not by the ones that are just plain wrong.