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marcos
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Post by marcos » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:20 pm

Yes, and even then, you don't get bad rolls in every game.
well not every, but an 80% of games i'd say :P

everyone knows about my "particular" luck, be it lame or not, i'm learning to live with it and take it with sense of humor...

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Alter Tuk wrote:You made 2 or 3 faction rolls against all odds! To be honest.... Those got you the win. One could discuss very long about how many rolls were good and how many sucked but the truth is: In the end its all a 7! For everyone! 8)
That's kind of a silly statement; it's like saying: You eventually draw most of the cards in your deck, so a bad shuffle doesn't matter.

The Lucky Seven variant of MECCG (all rolls automatically considered a seven) is actually a rather interesting way to play, but that's not standard playing. I personally don't design decks that need an 11 or 12 to succeed (10 is usually my limit :) ), but I have a hard time designing decks that can't be derailed by a roll of 2 or 3. Essentially, and especially in tournaments, bad rolls screw you up more than good rolls help, because most people design decks where a good roll is 4 or more.

Manuel
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Post by Manuel » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:44 pm

We all use the same dice here. Bad or good rolls depend on how you see it and what do you consider more relevant; those 2s are 3s against cave drakes are always more surprising, of course.

And yes, sense of humour is appreciated on such cases. I just say whinning about it all the time (and in the proccess blaming other people's wins on their luck) is so wrong. Think of "spanish luck", for example ;)

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:00 pm

I make my own bad luck by playing Fallen Saruman. :)

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:23 am

(and in the proccess blaming other people's wins on their luck) is so wrong. Think of "spanish luck", for example
spanish players wins because you guys are some of best around, period. That assumption you made is wrong as well ;)

i'm just being an asshole with myself... i should have bad karma or something :P

Manuel
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Post by Manuel » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:15 am

marcos wrote:
(and in the proccess blaming other people's wins on their luck) is so wrong. Think of "spanish luck", for example
spanish players wins because you guys are some of best around, period. That assumption you made is wrong as well ;)

i'm just being an asshole with myself... i should have bad karma or something :P
Haha, yeah, good karma is important :D

Alter Tuk
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Post by Alter Tuk » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:02 am

Bandobras Took wrote:
Alter Tuk wrote:You made 2 or 3 faction rolls against all odds! To be honest.... Those got you the win. One could discuss very long about how many rolls were good and how many sucked but the truth is: In the end its all a 7! For everyone! 8)
That's kind of a silly statement; it's like saying: You eventually draw most of the cards in your deck, so a bad shuffle doesn't matter.
No it`s not. It just seems you didn`t get my point. What I tried to say is you sometimes have good rolls against all odds (did you ever kill a Nazgul?) and sometimes bad ones (did your Ringwraith ever die?). Both happens quite a lot and in the end you win some and you lose some. So it`s a 7 for everyone.

Considering one game you could get pissed but the more you play the more it gets balanced.

Not even mentioning the mathematical justification.
[url=http://gccg.sourceforge.net/]Come to GCCG or die a lonely death.[/url]

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:32 am

The most successful way to play MeCCG is to simply minimise the amount of times you are having to roll the dice. In other words, the more times you're saying 'auto', the better your game will be. That's why those 'cancelling' cards are all so popular and Hoarmurath Unleashed is the most annoying card in the game.

If you're relying on hitting those 7s, then your deck will get lucky some of the time and fail miserably the rest of the time.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:03 pm

Jambo wrote:The most successful way to play MeCCG is to simply minimise the amount of times you are having to roll the dice. In other words, the more times you're saying 'auto', the better your game will be. That's why those 'cancelling' cards are all so popular and Hoarmurath Unleashed is the most annoying card in the game.

If you're relying on hitting those 7s, then your deck will get lucky some of the time and fail miserably the rest of the time.
i wasn't relying on those 7, there's where all this come from :P

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:04 pm

Alter Tuk wrote:No it`s not. It just seems you didn`t get my point. What I tried to say is you sometimes have good rolls against all odds (did you ever kill a Nazgul?) and sometimes bad ones (did your Ringwraith ever die?). Both happens quite a lot and in the end you win some and you lose some. So it`s a 7 for everyone.
And my point was that decks are designed so that bad rolls hurt them more than good rolls help them. Yes, I've gotten lucky and killed a Nazgul -- but I had decided that I didn't have room for Merrier World in my sideboard. :oops: So my good luck amounted to 1 Marshalling Point.

It would average out if all decks were designed to require sevens in all instances, but this is not the case.

The last two King Under the Mountain decks I faced could only have failed if they rolled 2s on the bcs for the At Home dragon, but there was no point in the game where rolling a 12 would have made any difference whatsoever.

The number of times I've had a Wizard corrupted on a 2 or 3 is far greater than the number of times I've brought Itangast Roused into play simply because I'm not usually willing to gamble on rolling above a 15, but my opponent will see my wizard moving and think: why not a Lure of Nature?

If the average family has 1.5 children, that does not mean that my wife and I have 1.5 children. If the average roll is seven, that still does not mean that the 12s routinely do as much or more good in a game as the 2s do damage.

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Post by Bruce » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:05 pm

I think it's not very much about how many 12s and 2s you roll: on the long run the average roll is (more or less) 7 for everyone, as Martin said. The key point is the difference between the value needed and the value you actually roll, since a roll is either failed or successful, no matter by how much.

if you need, say, to roll 4 or more, and you roll 6 or 7, you think "yeah, everything as planned", if you roll 2 or 3 you'll think "goddamn it!" (and if you're Marcos you'll also think "it's the same old story" :)), if you roll 12 you'll be satisfied but you'll be slightly disappointed because you know that sucha high rolls are rare and it's better if they show up when most needed. How many times did you tap to remove a corruption card and rolled 12, thinking "damn, I could've kept the character untapped". Could you deem the 12 as an "unlucky" roll in this case?

It's pretty much like 2 football teams having the same number of goals scored and taken, but completely different scoring in the championship's standings: if a team wins a game by 13-2 and loses five games 2-1, and another team wins six games 3-2, both teams will have scored 18 goals and taken 12, but one team will have 6 wins and will be leading the standings, the other one will have 1 win and 5 losses, and will be ranking in the bottom positions.

As it was already pointed out, unlucky rolls tend to leave a much stronger trace in your memory, simply because players think in terms of expecting 6-8 from every single roll, then every time the roll gives 2 or 3, it is considered as an accident since it's a very unexpected event. Curiously, Strider rolling 11 and killing a Cave Worm should be considered an "accident" as well, according with this same logic, but no player ever complains about it or refuses to take the kill point when that happens. :D

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:37 pm

Bruce wrote:Curiously, Strider rolling 11 and killing a Cave Worm should be considered an "accident" as well, according with this same logic, but no player ever complains about it or refuses to take the kill point when that happens. :D
Wanna bet? ;)

marcos
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Post by marcos » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:50 pm

(and if you're Marcos you'll also think "it's the same old story" )
ha! you got my point :D

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm

Tubulario beat me 27-20. I couldn't believe some of his bc rolls. :)

Imrahil82
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Post by Imrahil82 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:14 pm

Results on the other post ;)
Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the Lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan...grey-eyed, dark-haired...

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