V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

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Sauron
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Rules/Pairings/Results)

Post by Sauron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:38 pm

Alter Tuk wrote:
Sauron wrote:My opponent has conceded the game to me.
Your behaviour is kind of childish. I say that as your friend, Brian.
So is refusing to give up your seat and goto the back of the bus considered childish? *

Protest is protest. Where would we be without the ability to protest? If I have done nothing but got people to realize the stupidty of not enforcing or having time limits. Or to do something about stalling. Then I have done my job.

I stand up for my rights, even when others won't.

As a side note: I like how everyone likes to attack me, but won't actually address the issue I'm forcing. I like how everyone likes to take shots at me, but won't actually discuss the actual problem. The problem of no time limits, stalling, extreme slow play, etc. Perhaps all of you should actually take the time to fix the issue instead of sniping at me? That would be a better use of your energies? I mean I can continue to debate this over the forums with you guys and will continue, but I would prefer you guys actually fix the issue, as I will force this in every tournament until something is done.

*For those who don't know go google Rosa Parks.

thorondor
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by thorondor » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:25 pm

what do you protest against?
against playing without time limit? just dont participate if you dont like it.
against marcos having forgotten to clarify that there will be no time limit in this tourney? you knew BEFORE the tourney (even if it as not stated explicitly) that this is going to be the way. why not protest BEFORE?

Sauron
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Sauron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:19 pm

thorondor wrote:what do you protest against?
against playing without time limit? just dont participate if you dont like it.
against marcos having forgotten to clarify that there will be no time limit in this tourney? you knew BEFORE the tourney (even if it as not stated explicitly) that this is going to be the way. why not protest BEFORE?
What do you mean I knew BEFORE. If it wasn't discussed and it wasn't posted how did I know BEFORE?

I just magically knew?

And I'm protesting the fact that slow and stalling players never get called on it. I'm protesting the fact people don't enforce CoL Tournament Rules.

And here's another example, in my game my opponent had an illegal deck. 2 copies of the same unique ally. How are we supposed to handle that? Is it considered cheating? Is it considered an honest mistake? Where do we draw the line? How do we know whether it was an honest mistake or they were purposely cheating? (Note I personally feel it was an honest mistake, just using this as an example) We need enforced rules, not have a lax attitude. It's a tournament, not a casual game.

marcos
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by marcos » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:24 pm

What do you mean I knew BEFORE. If it wasn't discussed and it wasn't posted how did I know BEFORE?
Brian, this topic was posted before tourney started, and there is a link to last year's rules which are the same year after year

Sauron
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Sauron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:45 pm

marcos wrote:
What do you mean I knew BEFORE. If it wasn't discussed and it wasn't posted how did I know BEFORE?
Brian, this topic was posted before tourney started, and there is a link to last year's rules which are the same year after year
And marcos did you go read the rules your post linked? No where is it said or stated in last year rules there is no time limit.

You people can't just keep throwing out there, well that's how we played it last year. Just because it was like that in the past doesn't mean it'll be like that in the future.

The 1st I heard of no time limit was when I went to play my 1st game. I told marcos that it wasn't posted and he said well that's the way it is.

However according to all posted and discussed information, it isn't listed ANYWHERE that there won't be time limits. People just assumed this. Are we to make assumptions in tournament play? I assume I can change decks between every round. It's not a posted rule, but I assume it so it's right? No of course that's mistaken.

People do not assume I knew before starting it wasn't stated or discussed anywhere. Perhaps you people should stop making assumptions and learn to read what's posted instead of making assumptions.

marcos
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by marcos » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:53 pm

my point is that you could have brought that up, before starting with round 1

Sauron
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Sauron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:02 pm

marcos wrote:my point is that you could have brought that up, before starting with round 1
And you could have made a post with the rule in it. I'm trying to play by the posted rule set, not the percieved rule set.

marcos
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by marcos » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:08 pm

yes i could but i didn't, my bad, won't happen again.
you could also have complained about stalling player, but you didn't

happy?

Sauron
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Sauron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:17 pm

marcos wrote:yes i could but i didn't, my bad, won't happen again.
you could also have complained about stalling player, but you didn't

happy?
Again I posted why I didn't.

And PS: Marcos I will never be happy, Frodo destroyed my ring :(

marcos
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by marcos » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:30 pm

Damn frodo!!! I always hated hobbits :evil:

thorondor
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by thorondor » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:35 am

its all aragorns fault, and of his fellow conspirator, that lousy old man!
they resorted to stalling all the time, drawing the awareness of the master and his armies to different places, while the hobbits had a nice sunday afternoon´s walk thru mordor.
i completely understand, why sauron hates stalling that much ...



@brian: are you telling us, you had no idea (or assumption or whatever ...) that this tourney would be played without timelimit when you registered for it? if so, you got all the right of it to protest against it.
but why did you start to protest in the semi finals? and not earlier?
why did you choose a method of protest against another player, who has absolutely nothing to do with the whole affair. imo any protest has to be directed to the source of the injustice, imbalance, or whatever ...

you brought up another matter:
And I'm protesting the fact that slow and stalling players never get called on it. I'm protesting the fact people don't enforce CoL Tournament Rules.
again, you got all the right of it here! i myslef had no problem so far with stalling players, but i am sure i would hate it if i feel someone does this on purpose.
illegal deck? if i play an illegal deck - not purposely of course - and get caught and my opponent claims a full victory, i wouldnt complain for a second (though i would blame myself a lot!). if the mistake can be amended and my opponent wants to play on, i will gladly do so. (pretty sure thomas would have seen it similarly yesterday!)
We need enforced rules, not have a lax attitude. It's a tournament, not a casual game.
again agreed! for certain torunaments (eg. nations cup) this should be applied more strictly.

to cut a long stroy short: the problem is not whether there is a time limit or not. imo its about rules and judges, and playing according to the rules and enforcing them if needed. thats something we should discuss about.

finally: ever anybody thought about why there have been only 6 players playing the Online GCCG Chmampionships? i cant speak for others, but for me the only reason is because its played WITH a time limit of 80 minutes. i am not totally against it, but since i do not play that often online, and because the keyboard is still no big friend of mine, i know that i wont be fast enough.

Balin
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Balin » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:36 am

By the way, we had a looooong discussion about time limit here: http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... ?f=7&t=942
We ran a poll about the subject, ending in a draw (10 people say yes, 10 say no), so we kept it as it was (no time limit, like former NatsCup).
I strongly recommended the time limit option, but others say a player could still play slowly on purpose, giving you less time to play in a time-limited game. Besides, it's not so easy to keep track of it if no judge is watching the game.

Anyway, I think this rule is far enough known here, even if Marcos forgot to post it. Also, it's too late to complain about it when we are running semi-finals, that's for sure. Next year, we could run another poll or something, or just forget about it and try to have some fun while playing... even in a 3 hours long game :wink:
__

Let them come! There is one dwarf yet in Moria that still draws breath!

Beornd
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Beornd » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:02 pm

Balin wrote:By the way, we had a looooong discussion about time limit here: http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... ?f=7&t=942
We ran a poll about the subject, ending in a draw (10 people say yes, 10 say no), so we kept it as it was (no time limit, like former NatsCup).
I strongly recommended the time limit option, but others say a player could still play slowly on purpose, giving you less time to play in a time-limited game. Besides, it's not so easy to keep track of it if no judge is watching the game.

Anyway, I think this rule is far enough known here, even if Marcos forgot to post it. Also, it's too late to complain about it when we are running semi-finals, that's for sure. Next year, we could run another poll or something, or just forget about it and try to have some fun while playing... even in a 3 hours long game :wink:
I couldn't have said it any better. [-me_gi-]

Sauron
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Sauron » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:29 pm

Balin wrote:By the way, we had a looooong discussion about time limit here: http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... ?f=7&t=942
We ran a poll about the subject, ending in a draw (10 people say yes, 10 say no), so we kept it as it was (no time limit, like former NatsCup).
I strongly recommended the time limit option, but others say a player could still play slowly on purpose, giving you less time to play in a time-limited game. Besides, it's not so easy to keep track of it if no judge is watching the game.

Anyway, I think this rule is far enough known here, even if Marcos forgot to post it. Also, it's too late to complain about it when we are running semi-finals, that's for sure. Next year, we could run another poll or something, or just forget about it and try to have some fun while playing... even in a 3 hours long game :wink:
Why is ever too late to correct a past mistake?

Muad'Dib
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Re: V. GCCG Nations Cup 2011 (Planning/Talk)

Post by Muad'Dib » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:47 pm

I follow this discussion from the beginning and want write something, hope my english is enough for it.

Brian, your way is the shortest way to make this game more dead. I understand you but you should also understand how many people still play this game. Every year each tournament has less number of participants. This game is hard, people need 2-3 years to learn all tricks,cards,rules etc. The only thing which keeps them still with this game is FUN. If you force them to play with time limit in all events, push them, i wont have soon opponents online. And not only you, also me, marcos, Bert, Manuel etc. Im not sure but i think Thomas (your last opponent) told me, he doesnt like to play and he just wants to help his team. So if you discourage him , its a chance we wont have Austria team next year, because guys from Austria, like me, wont find another 3rd player. So its means less countries next year. Do you really want it? Do you prefer do find people to play online, and sometimes be angry because they play slow etc or maybe want to play 1-2 events with stricly tournament rules and in 1,5-2 years we wont have any more official games because nobody wont participate in them. Yeah, its cool to play against all top spanish,finnish, german players but how many we have them? Are you sure its fantastic to play each event with the same max 10 guys? Becuase in your way we wont find new people and not very experienced will drop out. How many tournaments we can play in small company? My last game vs Wolfgang took 4h, shit happens, now i have a story and can joke with him about it. I like to play tournaments, like to win but also like to have fun.

Im trying to organize Worlds in Poland. Do you know what i heard from few people? They are afraid to play because of time limit (in Poland we have more time for rounds) and high level of our guests from abroad. Sorry but when i hear them and read your posts i think we lost something playing this game.
IMustNotFear.FearIsTheMind-Killer.FearIsTheLittle-death ThatBringsTotalObliteration.IWillFaceMyFear.
IWillPermitItToPassOverMeAndThroughMe.
AndWhenItHasGonePast,IWillTurnTheInnerEyeToSeeItsPath.
WhereTheFearHasGoneThereWillBeNothing. OnlyIWillRemain.

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