Black Rider, They Ride Together and Heralded Lord V

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2653
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Post by Bandobras Took » Wed May 27, 2009 1:29 pm

I think we can trust marcos when it comes to comments on deck building. ;)

User avatar
Thorsten the Traveller
Council Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Tilburg, Netherlands

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed May 27, 2009 1:35 pm

The idea is that BR gets you horses. But, I don't see a problem with stacking a BR, even if this means you can thus get 3 BR V in first turn I suppose, and thus also 6 horses by turn 2, the bottleneck remains getting the rw's together I suppose (though now you only need 6, which with KU V is not that difficult).

Why would you need 3x BR for TRT?
before you also needed 3x TRT for the full 9 mp's, so nothing changed there. And you can drop them just like that.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Leon
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:18 pm

Post by Leon » Wed May 27, 2009 1:41 pm

For a single RW you can just start with a single Black Horse and move. I fail to see the problem.

marcos
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Córdoba, Argentina

Post by marcos » Wed May 27, 2009 2:02 pm

@ Eric: you need 3 black rider to pull all the horses quickly enough (1 horse per black rider per turn) and i didn't mean that black rider V should get more black riders V, the idea was to allow black rider V to get non-Virtual black rider from sb.

@ Leon: Its not the same, you have to waste 1 turn squatting at the haven to get the horse AND you can't do sb that turn because you need to be untapped to play the horse, with black rider you are not wasting such turn.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2653
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Post by Bandobras Took » Wed May 27, 2009 2:13 pm

I agree with marcos.

User avatar
Thorsten the Traveller
Council Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Tilburg, Netherlands

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed May 27, 2009 2:26 pm

well unless specifically excluded, you could get BR V via BR then, but either way is fine I suppose.
You say you need 3xBR, but that is a matter of competitiveness and choice, if you play some rings you can have 6 horses by turn 5 easily with one BR, and to get 6 or more rw before turn 5 is asking alot...but, if you want to make it two horses, or use the BR road, it's ok with me.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

marcos
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Córdoba, Argentina

Post by marcos » Wed May 27, 2009 2:51 pm

that is why i specified non-Virtual Black rider ;)

But yes, i guess either way is fine because the bottleneck is still drawing into the RWs soon enough, so:

Permanent event. During your organization phase (or immediately after a ring is played), you may place a Black Horse or Black Rider from your sideboard with this card. Such cards may be played as if in hand. If at least half your Ringwraiths control a Black Horse, their company is in Black Rider mode and may move to non-Darkhaven sites. You may start the game with this card in lieu of a minor item.

Regarding TRT, now that black rider can get other black riders from sb i guess TRT can remain the same (just run 1 black rider as starting, put the other 2 at sb and the 3 TRT to deck, or something like that :lol: )

Frodo
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:09 am
Location: NYC, NY

Post by Frodo » Thu May 28, 2009 2:43 am

Regarding the idea of having only one TRT:
Marcos suggested the clause "Their company must move again 1 time for each 3 RWs you control." Indeed, something like this would be needed, but I have some problems with a phrase like this, because it means you are essentially granting yourself *three extra site movements* all at once, which feels a little weird to me.

Regarding Black Rider:
I have to say, it feels strange to me that Black Rider can pull copies of itself from the sideboard for no real loss save one slot from the sideboard. Also, maybe I'm just dense or tired tonight, but-- why do you need 3 BRs? If you start 2 BRs, you can play 2 Black Horses the first turn, your third and fourth the second turn, and your fifth and sixth the third turn. *THAT'S ALL THE BLACK HORSES YOU NEED*. This is because Black Rider (V) current says that only HALF your RWs need Black Horses to be in a mode, so even if you got *ALL NINE RINGWRAITHS OUT BY TURN 3*, which is probably impossible but let's say you do it, you still only need 5 horses, and therefore you still only need 2 copies of Black Rider (V)!!

marcos
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Córdoba, Argentina

Post by marcos » Thu May 28, 2009 3:00 am

New they ride together taps only if you have 6 black horses, but that is not the point, i'm good with taking only the normal version of black rider from SB, i feel that the original one SHOULD be able to be taken, like i said, that is the best thing that ever happened to active RWs. The original black rider is needed for active RWs to work!

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2653
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Post by Bandobras Took » Thu May 28, 2009 3:26 am

marcos is correct in that Black Rider (non-virtual) is the card of choice for Active RW MP gathering.

Frodo
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:09 am
Location: NYC, NY

Post by Frodo » Thu May 28, 2009 4:11 am

I forgot to mention that it was an oversight on my part that Black Rider (V) didn't pull the regular Black Rider. Yes, I agree that it should.
New they ride together taps only if you have 6 black horses,
Oh!! You're right, I missed that part completely.
:cry: That would mean that if you start two BR (V), you wouldn't have 6 Black Horses in your movement phase until 4th turn (since you play the 5th and 6th at the end of your 3rd turn). Hmm... I admit, that's about one turn later than I'd like.

What if we simply said, "If at least 6 of your RWs are in Black Rider mode..."?

This means if you went the Black Horse route, you need only have these horses on half your RWs.

You could also try to avoid the Black Horse route by just using one Black Rider... but I don't think any RW can control everybody without the influence provided by Black Horse, correct?

Thoughts?

Frodo

marcos
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Córdoba, Argentina

Post by marcos » Thu May 28, 2009 12:49 pm

that is correct, you need some horses to control the 9 RWs

i like the suggestion by joe, we just need to specify if half rounded up or rounded down. I'd suggest rounded down so we can get the horses needed by turn 4

User avatar
Thorsten the Traveller
Council Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Tilburg, Netherlands

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 28, 2009 1:50 pm

That would mean that if you start two BR (V), you wouldn't have 6 Black Horses in your movement phase until 4th turn (since you play the 5th and 6th at the end of your 3rd turn). Hmm... I admit, that's about one turn later than I'd like.
Are you kiddin? you can't even depend on having your rw in play in turn 1, so how do you expect to have 6 rw in turn 3?
Also, you can now get 9 MP for only 6 rw, so for those who want to take a risk, it's faster and more profitable already.
"If at least 6 of your RWs are in Black Rider mode..."?
how does that work? BR says 'if each rw has a horse, you're in BR mode', so either all have a horse, or you play BR, how can you have a single RW in a br mode? Or you mean to say, play 3 horses for TRT and a BR for the mode? I think it's a bit cheap, you then make it really easy for Khamul.

btw. with Indur you could control 8 rw without any horses (recycle Words of Menace each turn).
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

marcos
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Córdoba, Argentina

Post by marcos » Thu May 28, 2009 2:20 pm

with 6 RWs you get 6 MPs, it is:

1 MP for each 3 ringwraiths for each TRT

anyways, I'm with thorsten on the big truth that you might not draw the RW on turn 1...
Thorsten the Traveller wrote:
"If at least 6 of your RWs are in Black Rider mode..."?
how does that work? BR says 'if each rw has a horse, you're in BR mode', so either all have a horse, or you play BR, how can you have a single RW in a br mode? Or you mean to say, play 3 horses for TRT and a BR for the mode? I think it's a bit cheap, you then make it really easy for Khamul.
hehe that took me some time to understand it as well. I guess that you need horses on half your RWs to move with black rider V, you also need at least 6 RWs to tap they ride togheter and a original black rider to put your RWs into black rider mode.

Problem with Indur is the card flow and the speed to get the followers out. I think that WK and Khamul (they can pull followers from sb or discard pile) and prolly Adunaphel (with 1 untapper and 1 back to the fray you can put all the followers to deck in 1 turn), are the best choices for the Riders quest

Note that i'm ok with taking both versions of black rider or just the original one, let the majority decide :)

Leon
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:18 pm

Post by Leon » Thu May 28, 2009 4:45 pm

I agree with Marcos to take original BR from sideboard with BR virtual and do not want to make other changes.

Furthermore, I really meant the 6 RW with 6 Black Horse requirement for TRT virtual. It is already easier than the earlier BR virtual and it does not create confusion.

Your argument about turns is solved if BR virtual can pull BR virtual from sideboard, so why not do that?

Locked

Return to “Showcase”