Virtual Card Discussion and Playtesting

Frodo
Ex Council Member
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The MPs referred to should be whatever MP the faction would give the player at the time (as opposed to the number indicated on the card). So, Fallen-wizards might get only 2 or 3 battling MPs out of the Southrons. Also, the Mps halved will be the value that the card is giving you. Also, a wounded faction will fight at half-strength in the next battle.

This means Tribute would add 1 to the faction, thus helping your roll for Alliance and Grond.

Frodo
zarathustra
Ex Council Chairman
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The current text has three problems, I think:

(1) It seems that Army of the Dead now only wounds one faction (no need to roll). That's very weak. Can we say it automatically eliminates one faction?

(2) Only one of the losing factions is wounded? Why is this? If they all fight, and they all lose, shouldn't they all suffer? As it is, you can fight with a bunch of 1 MP factions, lose and retain full MPs.... Why would 1 big faction risk itself vs a bunch of wimpy factions if this is the case?

(3) Does the winner get kill points for eliminating factions?

How about this revision:

ALLIANCE/GROND
[all text is the same up to here:]
[...]
You and opponent roll, doubling your faction MPs
battling and adding this value to your rolls. All losing faction are inverted as routed. A routed faction gives half its normal marshaling points (round up). If a losing faction is already routed, it is eliminated and the winner receives its normal MPs as kill points. If Army of the Dead is among the factions battling, eliminate one of the opponent's factions as kill points and place Army of the Dead in its player's MP pile before rolling (i.e., neither faction counts towards the roll, and Army of the Dead may fight only once).
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Jambo
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I like Mark's suggestion. An added advantage of removing the body values is we have less text and I can increase the font size! ;)

Maybe a card for the future might be one that can heal a faction? E.g. "A Few Recruits" is suitably named for such a purpose. :)
Frodo
Ex Council Member
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Location: NYC, NY

Well, Mark's long suggestion for AoD used up all the space I saved by deleting the body information!

Okay, how's this one:

ALLIANCE/GROND
Each player places their factions at a region card (or map) containing the site they were played at. Factions may move up to four regions during their controller’s organization phase. During your end-of-turn phase, all your factions at same region may battle all opponent’s minion or Fallen-wizard factions at same region. You and opponent roll, doubling your faction MPs battling and adding this value to your rolls. If Army of the Dead battling, before rolling eliminate one opposing faction and place Army permanently in owner's MP pile. Losing factions are routed (invert them) and give half MPs (round up). If a faction is already routed, it is eliminated. Eliminated factions give their normal MPs as kill points.


Jamie: Please note that Grond always has a slight difference from Alliance because it uses the words "minion and Fallen-wizard factions" may battle against all "opponent's factions."

I should point out that Grond and Alliance don't need to say the same thing. For instance, since it's really only minions that have the luxury (handicap?) of getting many 1 MP factions, Grond can give them some kind of ability, and we can remove the clause about Army of the Dead from Grond's text, since the player wishes to use Army like this can just play Alliance.

Mark: I don't think we can use the word "normal" for routed factions giving half their normal MPs because I want the MP loss to affect Fallen-wizard factions no matter who they are using. However, i'm also worried about the WH rule that Fw resources cannot have their MP value modified by any non-stage resource. Is there a way to *briefly* address this issue here?

Frodo
Last edited by Frodo on Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jambo
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

Ok, this just fits on Alliance with font size 12:

Code: Select all

Each player places their factions with a region card (or on map)
containing the site where they were played. Factions may move 
up to 4 contiguous regions during their controller’s organization 
phase. During your end-of-turn phase, your factions in same 
region may battle against opponent’s minion or Fallen-wizard 
factions at same region. You and opponent roll, doubling your 
faction MPs battling and adding this value to your rolls. If [i]Army 
of the Dead[/i] is battling eliminate one of opponent’s factions and 
place [i]Army of the Dead[/i] permanently in owner’s MP pile before 
rolling. All losing factions are inverted. Inverted factions give 
         half MPs (round up). If a faction is already inverted it is 
         eliminated. Eliminated factions give their normal MPs 
         as kill points.
Likewise for Grond:

Code: Select all

Each player places their factions with a region card (or on map)
containing the site where they were played. Factions may move 
up to 4 contiguous regions during their controller’s organization 
phase. During your end-of-turn phase, your minion or Fallen-
wizard factions in same region may battle against opponent’s 
factions at same region. You and opponent roll, doubling your 
faction MPs battling and adding this value to your rolls. If [i]Army 
of the Dead [/i]is battling eliminate one of its opposing factions and 
place [i]Army of the Dead[/i] permanently in owner’s MP pile before 
rolling. All losing factions are inverted. Inverted factions give 
           half MPs (round up). If a faction is already inverted it is 
           eliminated. Eliminated factions give their normal MPs 
           as kill points.
Are these OK? Otherwise it's 11 or 11.5.
Frodo
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Location: NYC, NY

Unfortunately some of the text you cut is necessary for clarification, such as the "all"s, but some I think can use your edits. I'm editing the above post in red text to make it shorter.

Frodo
Jambo
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

Is there any reason why some of the magic duel cards have more MPs being awarded for certain Wizards or Ringwraiths? For the Witch-king I could understand the thematical side to it. For Pallado, Fallen-Rad, etc, is this just because they're more likely to squat? I suppose for the minion version, Fallen-Rad is often just next door to Dol Guldur...
Frodo
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That's exactly what it is; rather than just going with theme all the time, we want to also encourage the player of these cards to seek out (target) Fallen Rad and Pallando more, thus punishing this deck type ever so slightly. Kinda like awarding -3 handsize to Sauron rather than -1...

Frodo
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Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
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Virtual Untimely Whisper wrote:When this card is played, place it with your minion Rivendell, Lorien, Edhellond, or Grey Havens in play or
taken from your location deck. This site is never discarded or returned to the location deck. Creatures keyed to this site by name cannot be canceled. Rotate this card 90° each time opponent plays an Elf or Maia hazard. A number of items or information played here do not tap the site: not rotated: 1 item/info; rotated once: 2 items/ info; rotated twice or more: 3 items/info. Discard this card when any item or information event is played that taps the
site. Cannot be duplicated by a given player.
How does this card interact with FW companies?

Also, when this card is discarded, does this mean that the the site card can now be discarded/returned the location deck?
Jambo
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:How does this card interact with FW companies?

Also, when this card is discarded, does this mean that the the site card can now be discarded/returned the location deck?
My guess is it interacts in the same way for FWs. Information and items are only playable at the minion versions of these sites, so a FW company would need to be either overt or minion (i.e. orc/troll based), or have a card like Heart Grown Cold in play.

Secondly, the text of this card has changed a little between this version and the latest. The latest reads:
Rotate this card 90° each time opponent plays an Elf or Maia hazard. Creatures keyed by name to Rivendell, Lorien, Edhellond, or Grey Havens cannot be canceled. At each of these sites, a number of items or information played there does not tap it. Not rotated: 1 item/info. Rotated once: 2 items/info. Rotated twice or more: 3 items/info. Discard this card when any item or information event is played that taps the site. Cannot be duplicated by a given player.
Jambo
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

Waiting Shadow:
What happens if this card its played on a site where a Ringwraith is present? Since there's no mention of Ringwraith in the text can I assume they're not considered the highest mind character?

Maybe at some point a clarification could be made to specify who chooses the character to be tapped if there's more than one character present with the highest mind, e.g. 3 chars with 6 mind. When I played with Joe, he mentioned it should be the hazard player.
Frodo
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Location: NYC, NY

I realized that I probably ruled on Waiting Shadow incorrectly. It should function more like River, where any Ranger can tap.

Would this wording be clear enough? If you think so, Jambo please incorporate it immediately and let Brian know:

Waiting Shadow (V):
"...any untapped non-Ringwraith character with the highest mind must tap (choose Wizard if
present)"

At present it cannot target Ringwraiths. I wouldn't have minded it being able to target Balrog, but it seemed too strong to be able to target all RWs.

I changed Untimely Whisper exactly because of the headache it gave me with FW companies!

Frodo
Jambo
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

I chatted to miguel (Mikko) and we came up the following:

[V] Waiting Shadow:
Playable on a site. Any non-moving company
at this site at the end of its movement/hazard
phase must tap a non-Ringwraith character or
the company may do nothing during its site
phase. This character must be the Wizard, if
present and untapped, or the highest-mind
untapped character. Cancels the effects of Hall
of Fire
at this site. Cannot be duplicated
on a site.

I've sent this to Brian for inclusion.
Frodo
Ex Council Member
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Location: NYC, NY

Wow, nice job Jamie (and Miguel!)

Frodo
Ringbearer
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The card looks good to me. I can even read trough the lines: playable on a wizardhaven Rhosgobel :D
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