[Virtual Suggestion] A Lie In Your Eyes

[Bandobras Took]

Now, here's a hazard that nobody uses, but I think there's a better effect for a card with that title:

Hazard Long Event.

All Detainment attacks receive -1 strike to a minimum of one and attack normally, not as detainment.

Having it be a long event makes it vulnerable to Marvels Told and makes it also affect each player.

[GuardianOfTheFlame]

I like this card: it doesn't seem broken and it fits very well with the title
As it is, it could be played on guard? for covert company could be a bad surprise

[Jambo]

Neat idea, but there's a couple of possible thematic problems:

I'm not sure how great it would be for heroes with the Maia attacking everyone normally at and . Gandalf attacking Elrond? Hmm.

Also for minions everyone would just be using Nazgul to attack minion companies. Nazgul and Black Breath?

Maybe make it affect automatic attacks only and remove the -1 strike?

[Leon]

As it is the use of the card you suggest is far too broad but I could imagine a use for a specific type of creature or attack like the following card:

Awaken Defenders C Long-event
The number of strikes for each automatic-attack at a Free-hold or Border-hold is doubled. Additionally, each detainment automatic-attack at a Free-hold or Border-hold becomes a normal automatic-attack. Cannot be duplicated

Perhaps you could have it affect only men creatures. Something like:

A Lie in Your Eyes
Permanent event
Any detainment attack by a man hazard creature except Mouth of Sauron and Lord of the Carrock attacks normally with -2 prowess. Discard this card if such an attack is defeated.

The creatures that would benefit from this are:
vs hero/covert: Horse-Lords, the Border-Watch, Beorning Toll
vs minion: Sellswords between Charters, Lawless Men, Goblin Faces

I could imagine that men could make mistakes like that, perhaps some other race as well. Lord of the Carrock and Mouth of Sauron would be too strong and they can probably recognise who belong to their side. -2 prowess seems necessary to me and making it a permanent event instead of long enhances the playability enough to make it useful with the affected attacks limited as this.

[Jambo]

Or just have :

[V] A Lie in Your Eyes
Permanent event
Any Man or Orc detainment attack (except Mouth of Sauron and Lord of the Carrock) attacks normally with -1 prowess. Discard this card if such an attack is defeated.

After all, Orcs were always fighting amongst themselves! (e.g. Cirith Ungol )

I fear that -2 prowess will mean it's gone in a second, so I suggested -1.

[Leon]

Orcs and men would be fitting, I think. I suggested -2 prowess because the Sellswords, Beorning Toll and Horse Lords are quite strong, but only playtesting would show what is best. As someone said in another post it is probably better to have the card on the strong side at first and later reduce it if necessary. I am not sure if you should include automatic attacks as well as creatures, but for this probably the same counts as I say about the minus to prowess.

[GuardianOfTheFlame]

I'm not sure how great it would be for heroes with the Maia attacking everyone normally at Free Hold and Free Domain. Gandalf attacking Elrond? Hmm.

You're right, It sounds strange... I think that this card fits well vs minion (for both roleplay and gameplay), but not vs heroes.
In every rpg, good must be aware of evil, while evil must be aware of both good & evil!
Nazgul & Sauron apart, evil armies often fight against themselves for power, greed or to display skills to their superiors, but this doesn't happen in good forces.
For example, Horse-Lords against Eomer's company is very strange too!

What about this text:

[V] A Lie in Your Eyes
Permanent event
Any non unique detainment attack against non ringwraith minion company attacks normally with -1 prowess. Discard this card if such an attack is defeated.

I prefer to not restrict the use only to orcs or men (it fits very well also with spider/animal and undead for example), but specifing "non unique" it prevents the play of Nazgul, Mouth, Orc leader or Shelob and other too much strong creature.

I don't think sellswords are a great problem, they're 2 strikes @ 10 using 2 cards (and 2 HL) and A Lie In Your Eyes could be discard with a Voice Of Malice.

[Leon]

As it is the Horse Lords dont attack any group with a guy from Edoras, so no need to worry about that.

Horse-lords C 2* 10/6
Men. Each character in the company faces one strike (detainment against covert and hero companies). May be played keyed to Rohan, Wold & Foothills, Gap of Isen, and An?rien; and may also be played at non-Haven sites in these regions. May not be played against a company containing a character with Edoras as a home site.

I would not think that other races than orcs and men would make the mistake of attacking his own groups too fast and I think Jambo's suggestion is a good enough card.

[Jambo]

Yes, that's a good version GuardianoftheFlame.

Plus, it's also worth noting that this card can be discarded via "detainment" automatic-attacks which should be fairly easy to do for most companies.

[Bandobras Took]

Neat idea, but there's a couple of possible thematic problems:

I'm not sure how great it would be for heroes with the Maia attacking everyone normally at and . Gandalf attacking Elrond? Hmm.

One strike at 10 prowess? That doesn't seem too dangerous. I'd be more afraid of Arthadan Rangers. Thematically speaking,

Of course, I never blamed you for your welcome of me. How could I do so, who have so often counselled my friends to suspect even their own hands when dealing with the Enemy.

Also for minions everyone would just be using Nazgul to attack minion companies. Nazgul and Black Breath?

But I don't enquire how it's done. Safest not to. Grr! Those Nazgul give me the creeps. And they skin the body off you as soon as look at you.

Maybe make it affect automatic attacks only and remove the -1 strike?

That wouldn't make for very many new virtual strategies, though. There are already auto attack enhancers, including FEAR! FIRE! FOES!.

As it is the use of the card you suggest is far too broad but I could imagine a use for a specific type of creature or attack like the following card:

I don't think it too broad. Any number of races could easily make the mistake -- during the Kin-Strife, large numbers of Dunedain were happily slaughtering each other and forgetting all about Mordor. Nor would Haldir have treated Gimli as gently if Aragorn and Legolas had not been there. I don't think idiocy is confined to any one race in Tolkien's world.

At any rate, there are already Man buffs by the score out there. I'd rather not see it whittled down into something that will only help one hazard strategy, but rather something that helps many a little.

Here's a slightly edited version:

All Detainment attacks receive -1 strike to a minimum of one and attack normally, not as detainment. If this card is discarded, all attacks it currently affects are canceled.

I don't see that as being too strong -- the worst case is dedicated Nazgul against a Minion Mordor squatter with no means to remove Long Events.

Half an Eye Open has made any number of relatively safe areas veritable havens for Unique Dragons. I think Virtual hazards should open up different hazard strategies, not simply buff an already established one that will get more mileage out of Rank Upon Rank anyway.

[GuardianOfTheFlame]

As it is the Horse Lords dont attack any group with a guy from Edoras, so no need to worry about that

Ops! you're right
But also Beorning Tolls against Thranduil seems strange I think they are good neighbours

I would not think that other races than orcs and men would make the mistake of attacking his own groups too fast

I don't think that spider & animal or undead groups together with minion company... They could fear ringwraith, but why they cannot attack an orc patrol in their territories? They are not under Sauron direct control.
I like Jambo version too, I only extend his idea

Plus, it's also worth noting that this card can be discarded via "detainment" automatic-attacks which should be fairly easy to do for most companies.

good point! also follow a sort of guideline of permanent like The Moon Is Dead and Rank Upon Rank

[Leon]

I think there are now suggestions enough here for the Council to pick their choice. My final choice is just slightly different from GuardianoftheFlames, only minion is removed:

[V] A Lie in Your Eyes
Permanent event
Any non unique detainment attack against non ringwraith company attacks normally with -1 prowess. Discard this card if such an attack is defeated.

I would keep non-unique, since I do not see the unique guys making the sort of mistake suggested and I would find Shelob for example too overpowered if used against minions.

[Jambo]

Gandalf and the rest of the Maia will all be 1@10 (Saruman 2@10), but the upshot of this is it could result in heroes killing all the Maia fairly easily. Not only that but playing Maia in this way could become a viable strategy to prevent your opponent from even be able to play his avatar because you've got his main company to kill it. There's also the question of KPs. There's presumably no penalty for losing Maia this way and your opponent won't get kill points. 1@10 is usually enough to tap a character.

[GuardianOfTheFlame]

Maia will all be 1@10

I don't understand... maia are 2@13/9 so they become 1@13/9. 2 strikes for saruman and with Alatar in play... 2@14/9!!!
And I agree with Jambo about killing Maia in order to prevent opponent's Avatar.
and as said before... Gandalf vs Elrond!?! I agree about mistake but...

I don't think idiocy is confined to any one race in Tolkien's world.

I think you're right! and not only in Tolkien's World...
So I agree with Leon suggestion (without "only minion") that includes all the better idea born in this post (in my opinion)

GuardianoftheFlames

only THE FLAME (the name derives from "Guardians Of The Flame", the 2nd album of the american band Virgin Steele) It represents passion and life itself

[Jambo]

Yes, I also prefer Leon's version, but you'd have to add "Cannot be Duplicated."

Initially I had thought Guardian of the Flame might have something to do with the "super-hero" avatar you have!