V-card They ride together

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Nerdmeetsyou
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I just thought about buliding a deck and using the new version of They ride together.
but it is still unplayable.

This cards full potential is only useable if you have all nine ringwraiths played out. (Before that, it doesn't make any good benefits... okay you can play your mode cards from sideboard... but i could play a mode card instead of this card...)

So here is the problem what I see:
how to get out all nine riingwraiths???
Impossible if your opponent is a ringwraith...!!!!

and it's only useful in 2 deck games.. because you would have to sideboard them in the fist cycle to have them all 9 out... and then to start moving in the second cycle... !!!
but I think that can be okay... becaue having your ringwraiths move round that much... and without discarding their followers ec....

But I would suggest to activate the card even when not all 9 of them are together... maybe an extra bonus if all nine...

maybe you have to have 6 of them or someting like that....

here my new suggestion:
(and I worded it quiet shorter, with nearly the same meaning)
(and you forgot to add that the followers can be controled without influence, because it is impossilble to brin all 9 out.)
Maybe a clause should be added that prevents them from beeing discarded when they are at a darkhaven... so we don't need this extra movement thing.

maybe you can play the followers from sideboard or discard pile`???

Vesion 1:

They Ride Together
Permanent Event
You may play mode cards from your sideboard or discardpile.
You may play any number of ringwraith followers each turn and they don't need influence to be controled.
There is no maximum company size in your Ringwraiths company.
If there are 6 or more Ringwraiths in one of your companies, this card is worth 2 marsheling points and you may tap this card at the end of the movement hazard phase to allow this company to move again.
If all 9 Ringwraiths are in a company together, this card is worth 4 marsheling points instead.
You may start with this card in leau of a minor iteam.


Version2:

They Ride Together
Permanent Event
You may play mode cards from your sideboard or discardpile.
You may play Ringwraith followers form discard pile or sideboard and they don't need influence to be controled.
There is no maximum company size in your Ringwraiths company.
Ringwraith followers are not discarded if with a mode card at a darkhave during the organisation phase.
If 6 or more Ringwraiths are in a company together, this card is worth 2 marsheling points. (4 MP is all 9)
You may start with this card in leau of a minor iteam.
Frodo
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Hello Boder, thanks for your thoughts about this card.

Are you sure you're understanding the cards full effects as it is written now? I don't think it's unplayable. I made an RW deck using it and it helped *a lot*.

As some of the playtesters pointed out, the main problem with RW decks is the amount of cards you must put *in the deck*, and therefore the number of card combos you must *draw* in order to be successful. Playing a mode card from your sideboard is a very big deal. If you were trying to get out all 9 RWs, it saves you 9 cards you'd need in your playdeck!

There are two ways to use the card at present:

1) You can decide that you only need to play ONE Black Rider on all your RWs, since that will suffice to put your whole company in Black Rider mode; however, once the company returns to a darkhaven all followers would be discarded, so this is only good if your company is making one big nasty move somewhere (or if you're using Forced March).

2) You can put individual Black Horses on ALL your RW followers, so that they can move freely and not be discarded upon the return to a darkhaven. This is more time-consuming but it means you have more power.

You mentioned that we forgot to word that "followers can be played without influence", but this was on purpose. You merely need to play Black Horse/Black Rider (whichever one lets you play followers without influence; I forget offhand, I think it's the Horse).

I do agree with you that playing followers is still tedious, since you need to do it from the sideboard. Jamie recommends tapping your RW to put 5 in your discard pile, then using Back to the Fray, which shuffles in all characters from discard pile to play deck. But how easy to we really want it to be to get out NINE 8-power characters? Hmm.

I would like to see more playtesting on the card in its current version before I add more power to it, as in your version. However, I will keep your suggestions in mind, in case it still doesn't seem to do quite enough.

By the way, the extra movement ability is mostly for flavor, though it will also be needed since you will likely not get all 9 out until your last turn. ( I think I calculated that 5th or 6th turn is possible).

--Frodo
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Nerdmeetsyou
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm

To make this playable senseful, I would suggest adding the clause about playing your followers from sideboard.

because sideboarding them with back to the fray takes a lot of deckspace in the first place and a lot of efford in game.
I would like a version that is much more clearer and usful in the first few.
It is very important that a card seams simple and not only useful with a combo in mind.

I would either not allow to play mode cards from sideboard.
Or starting with this card in leau of a minor iteam.
Because with only on of this it is balanced enough I think.
Even with the NO discard clause.

I would not allow an additonal playing of ringwraiths as followers, because this is what makes them especialy mighty, because you can have a lot of them ready in very short time:
maybe you can make, that your ringwraith can tap to play one from the sideboard???


and in the end... I would just quit the (if you have all 9 out) thing just to make the card more clearer to read and with fewer text lines.
Because it is so unimportant, because it will never often happen and will not have much influence on the cards power!!!!
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Thorsten the Traveller
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I'd go with Frodo in saying that playing the ringwraiths directly from sideboard is way to powerfull. Playing the Horse from sideboard/discard is already a great boost to card-management enough.

Personally I think the card is very good, except for the MP's awarded. It's not a big thing, but basically you get MP's for filling your sideboard with Ringwraiths, they don't have to venture out to or do stuff to get the MP's. I agree it still takes quite some effort to get all nine out, but this way you could just fill the sideboard for the MP's and stick to the haven, if you don't think you've got better stuff to play (something like Morgul Orcs, awful invention that is, but at least you have to roll for it, and opponent can target it). Moreover, playing the ringwraiths gives the tactical advantage of your opponent not being able to play the nazgul hazards...
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
Jambo
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

As it stands the 2 MP is almost impossible to get. Any opponent seeing you try this will just leave some Nazgul perms on the table. I think the main effect of the card is fine, although like Boder I think two levels of MPs from this card might be more applicable, i.e. 2 MPs for 5 or 6 RWs, 4 for all 9.
Frodo
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:09 am
Location: NYC, NY

A suggestion--

What is the card was revised to read: "If 5 Ringwraiths are in a company together: this card is worth 2 marshalling points (4 MP if all 9 Ringwraiths together) and..." followed by the rest of the extra movement clause. Also, to save a lot of room, we could rewrite the company size line to read "There is no limit to the size of your Ringwraith's company."

Even if this sounds interesting, the change isn't going to be made until I hear results phrased from *actual game experience*, as in "I did this and it didn't work...", etc.

Jambo, are you using this card in any of your decks? Boder, have you actually played any GCCG games yet?

Btw, I believe the card needs to grab mode cards because we want it to be flexible; i.e. not just used to create a super-RW deck, but also to allow one's single RW to move rather early.

Frodo
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Nerdmeetsyou
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why did you exclued heralded lord mode???
Jambo
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm

Heralded Lord wasn't included because it's open to abuse and could promote squatting. E.g. play HL on the The WK at a haven and the WK's 9 DI allows you to play a 3 MP leader under his control. You'd have access to HL each turn with this card. :(
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Nerdmeetsyou
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I don't understand the abuse exactly????
Leon
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Sitting in the haven forever, playing Heralded Lord each turn and having way more influence than usually.
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Bandobras Took
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In the few active RW games I've played, the current version has been sufficiently strong. In my opinion, there's really no need to make it stronger. Being able to get your RW moving without clogging your hand is a massive positive shift in active RW strategies.
Leon
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:18 pm

I would also suggest to playtest the current set a lot before changing cards therein.
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Bandobras wrote:
In the few active RW games I've played, the current version has been sufficiently strong
Admittedly I haven't played this virtual, but I can imagine the tactical advantages are sufficient enough, and that's why I don't see the MP awards are necessary, 2 MP for the nine okay then, a thematical reward also, but for just 5 that's way too easy, you can start with 3 in the deck and get 2 from sideboard. Risk of opponent playing the nazgul? Voice it, wait till he discards/uses it, or play the nazgul yourself first. Shouldn't be too difficult. And not everyone includes akhorahil/dwar/witchking/ren just for the drop you know...

If the line is changed to 'no limit to ringwraiths company size', I would add/keep the line 'if there are only ringwraiths and/or black horse in the company.' otherwise you could for example play it with Riven Gate V and a whole bunch of petty orcs (but you probably already thought of that).
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
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Nerdmeetsyou
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no you can only start with 2 different in your deck....
three different is not allowed... only 2/1 or 3 of the same

If you think the masheling point award for 5 is too strong then remove it!
because it takes space on the card...
you will nearly never archiev this and without it the card is much more clearer!!!

I would say we remove then the nine ringwraith clause!!!

I'll built a deck and try the current version....!!!

I'll even inclued the other card mentioned... and see if it's too strong...
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Boderhamster wrote:
no you can only start with 2 different in your deck....
:oops: forgot about that, actually we never put different avatars in the deck, in casual play we just agree on which avatar to play, and in tourneys it's just all or nothing, so I completely forgot about this rule.
Still, doesn't make much difference though...
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
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