V - Helm of her Secrecy

[Nerdmeetsyou]

Permanent Event
CP:1
You may start with this card in leu of a minor iteam if one of your starting characters has edoras as homesite. Place it on this character. This character may not be Eowyn.
You may exchange this caracter for Eowyn from sideboard or discard pile, if there is a strike assinged to him with a prowless of 12 or more.
This card gives +2 Mind, +2 direkt influence and +3 prowless if it is placed on eowyn.

[Ringbearer]

All other characters from Edoras, except Hama are worth 1 point, so I wprolly wouldnt switch them for Eowyn. The idea is good, but I think it will see rare play.

[marcos]

gamlin?

[Nerdmeetsyou]

Yeah... but It should be just something optional... like if if would be worth it...
maybe make a special bonus against this SINGEL strike...
So you can kill this hazard....

Or the card gives +1 Marshelingpoints if placed on eowyn???

but if this is too kind of messy here is another idear:

hm... maybe another idear that has the same thing in mind.
Maybe it could be a permanent event that is a character. And can be started with if you have someone with edoras as homesite....
and if it is attacked by a creature of prowless 12 or higher he gets a bonus and may be exchanged for any character with edoras as homesite.... and the card is then placed on him if the charcter is eowyn. So the bonus remains then...

[Thorsten the Traveller]

Yes very nice card. In essence it's the same as normal Helm, but without the handclog and timing dificulty. Since it's not duplicatable the bonusses are less, so that is a good drawback (likewise mind increase). Basically though it's still the same card.

There is a bit of a thematic ambiguity here, you want this guy to represent Eowyn, but meanwhile he's not, so what if he dies? and opponent meanwhile can't play this guy, even though he's Eowyn? But opponent can play Eowyn.

Perhaps you could play it on a character from Edoras -in stead of minor item, and reveal as a character, making it a manifestation of Eowyn -, meaning that Helm wants to ride out to help him/her, but does not belong to the company as a char. And then at end of turn phase character must make a roll to keep this card in play, or discard a Horns3x or another Helm, meaning that Eowyn's not sure if she should stay, and adding a drawback to playing a char from sideboard that's pretty decent actually (4 mind warrior/scout 5/8 and 2 DI!). Most likely you'll run to a dragon site immediately then

I would then let char tap to let Eowyn join company, meaning Eowyn takes the strike for the guy, but he is still involved in the fight. (unless Theoden?) Otherwise it's too good, you get through auto too easily.

Other options:
Give this card special ability to retrieve Horns3x?
Or make this card playable on comp. with Edoras guy, but only take effect, i.e. play Eowyn from sideboard, after you play Horns3x V? That would be pretty specific though, but in line with the book.

[Jambo]

I like your ideas Thorsten and Boder, what about:

Helm of Her Secrecy V:
(1 MP)
Permanent-event
Playable on character with Edoras as a homesite (not Eowyn). If this character is assigned a strike from a hazard creature and Eowyn is in your hand, you may immediately bring her into play with this company and she must face this strike. Place this card with Eowyn: +3 prowess, +2 direct influence, and if the attack is not a Nazgul, +2 mind. This card is worth 1 MP on Eowyn. After the attack, discard Eowyn if you do not have enough influence available to control her. Cannot be duplicated.

[Thorsten the Traveller]

but you don't play this as a starter, and Eowyn not from sideboard. Then what is the benefit compared to the normal version, except this is playable on any strike? I'd prefer stronger benefit, and stronger drawback, don't want to include 3x Helm personally to get a fast draw to time with Eowyn.

Also I don't like cards where you have to keep track of history too much, you could get discussion after 5 turns: that Eowyn, was she played after nazgul or not? hmm, don't remember...

[Vastor Peredhil]

Hey guys,

well actually with the new TNaA (V) Helm of Her Secrecy is proberbly more played then before, and I also I like the original version

mfg Nicolai

[Jambo]

Playing direct from the sideboard is all fine and well, particularly when cards cause undue hand-clog, stiffling creativity, but if it's overused or not used carefully, all we'll end up doing is diluting some of the skill that's required to build good decks and play them well.

The problem, as I see it with the original HoHS, is that it required both Eowyn and HoHS to be in hand at the same time. Not only that, but there was relatively little chance of the card remaining around after the attack, and for a two-card combo, neither character nor HoHS gave any MPs. That's a lot going against it as a card.

The first version posted above doesn't require much in the way of planning or thought. Eowyn's in sideboard and so accessible whenever you want, and HoHS is playable from the start. The only detemining factor is whether your opponent decides to play a creature with a strike of at least 12 prowess, or not. So it's not even up to you!

What I did is remove the need to retain HoHS in the hand and make it worth an MP - two of the original card's biggest issues. I thought it thematic that Eowyn still had to be drawn because in a way that simulated a kind of her readying herself for her big moment. Plus, it affords the hazard player some chance to play creatures (like Nazgul), with the hope that you haven't drawn into her yet. If she's in the sideboard that interesting facet as to when she reveals herself is gone.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

yeah... you are right...
we should make haveing her in hand mandatory... so it is more of a surprise.... which also fits thematicly...
AND
we should make it only trigger by hazard creatures. So you cannot tirgger her by yourself... (playing long event attacks or autto attacks....)
because as it was intended, you opponent should have a choice not to trigger it!!!

But I think it si very important to start with this card... because it is just another card that is neat but will just be cut in the deckbuilding process if you cannot start with it...
and i think it looses a lot of it's flavour if you don't stat with it.

and I still think it shouldn't prevent you oponent from playing eowyn... because maybe in fact they guy with the helm isn't her...

her my new version...

Permanent Event
CP:1
You may start with this card in leu of a minor iteam if one of your starting characters has edoras as homesite. Place it on this character. This character may not be Eowyn.
You may exchange this caracter for Eowyn from your hand (other character is discarded) , if there is a strike assinged to him from a hazard creature with a prowless of 12 or more.
This card gives+1 Marsheling Points, +2 Mind, +2 direkt influence and +3 prowless if it is placed on eowyn.

[Thorsten the Traveller]

I understand the deckbuilding and playing argument, and too much deck manipulation is no good indeed. But in this case, the reward is not good enough to lure me to get a two card combo in hand of which one is unique, not to mention the company restriction you need to accomodate and keep these pathetic Rohirrim alive. You're asking me to include 4 cards in deck basically for what? 1 MP? so then you prefer a mission over a nice character. At least the normal Helms is duplicatable.
But Boders 2nd version is a good middle way. I'd prefer drawing the char. over drawing the resource. Moreover because it's a rare.

If you can't trigger it yourself, it's even less worth it, unless you make it playable after any creature. In a normal game it can very well happen that opponent only plays creatures with less than 12 prowess. But after any creature is bit a cheezy thematically. Neekers-breekers?: Eowyn to the rescue! Thanks Eowyn for helping out against these Crebain!

[Jambo]

Thorsten,

I think you're misinterpreting the card (my version at least). You can play HoHS at any time on a character with Edoras as a homesite (other than Eowyn of course), so there's no requirement to have both HoHS and Eowyn in hand at the same time. All you have to do is draw HoHS first, which if you only include 1 in the deck is a 50% chance; higher if you include more (which I wouldn't do).

I didn't design it to be the centre showpiece of any deck or strategy. Instead, it's a support card, something that might be useful when you're facing the Nazgul attack in a Hornsx3 deck (Hornsx3 is typically played final turn), or planning on a visiting Nazgul territory.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

I don't like limiting it to a special kind of deck...

like the 3xhorns deck...

I think a good card should be desingned more genaraly....

and it was never intended to be a strong strategy...
just something that might be considered instead of another minor iteam...
You have to think of it not as a marsheling point or recource card....
you should more think of it, like a need piece of minor iteam thats also very thematic ...

maybe we should even make it a minor iteam????

[Leon]

I do not like more events as starting minor items, unless they encourage new strategies like Tower Raided V.

As Jambo points out this card is good enough to throw into your deck once. If you want it to be very playable perhaps make the bonuses just +2 prowess, +1 body, +1 DI as before and leave out any specific text about nazgul. If the card is playable on any character with Edoras as home site and only triggers on an attack if you play Eowyn that is sufficient improvement. In this way Eowyn is a decent character and an awesome nazgul fighter. warrior/scout, 2/1 mind, 4/8 prowess, 10/8 vs nazgul.

Actually I have put Rohirrim in some decks outside Rohan. Hama with a black arrow works pretty good.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

so lets make this card... i love it already...!
I definitly want to play it!