Council of Elrond

Very simple, but I can't think how times I've wanted to design a regular minion deck around a pack of Orcs. e.g. Shagrat and Gorbag.

[v] Orders from Lugburz
Playable on a company. May be played with a starting company in lieu of a minor item. This company may contain an Orc leader in addition to another leader. Cannot be duplicated on a given company.

I suppose that has often puzzled many people. But maybe two orc-leaders in a company just doesn't match, they pick fights over nothing, and a troll is more dominant so the other guy keeps his mouth shut...

I was thinking along another line for this one:

Orders from Lugburz V: short-event
Playable on an influence attempt by a leader against a minion opponent's item. The influence attempt is automatically succesful.

This is Shagrat saying to Gorbag: Mithril coat must go to Lugburz and I'm commanded to bring it there.
Influence against Item doesn't occur often for minions, there are not that many (good) unique items, nor many guys with good DI. But opponent snatching High Helm just a turn before you can play it, is ultimately annoying. Now, you can get it back from him (and he back from you and so forth). Ultimate trick would be to play this on opponent bearing the One Ring.

Too strong/harsh?

At the moment i think it is hard to influence stuff away for minions from each other, so cards to help that are nice. However, automatically successfull is overpowered and leaves the opponent fealing he has too little defence.

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:I suppose that has often puzzled many people. But maybe two orc-leaders in a company just doesn't match, they pick fights over nothing, and a troll is more dominant so the other guy keeps his mouth shut...

True but then the Balrog's version doesn't distinguish and has this option...

It might bring some life to the Orc Chieftans/Captains, Shagrat, etc, who see less play than the Troll Lts.

However, I do agree that minion to minion influence, and influence in general vs minion could be expanded upon. Perhaps the culprit is more the free 5 GI that can't be touched. I did suggest a hazard a while back which targeted this "free" GI.

I suppose if two balrogs play eachother, they might end up without troll leaders after the draft, since they all want Ummi/Bummi and can't include lieutenants and might forget about Troll-chief. Anyway, everything in Balrog is just a bit stronger

But I like your version, just that it's such a little change from the original, maybe it should belong better as a line on another (or this) card.

If you take the +5, influence vs. character and faction (which is already not hard) will be easier also. Influence vs. item has less severe effect I suppose.

Yes automatic is harsh. How about:

Orders from Lugburz V: short-event
Playable on an influence attempt by a leader against a minion opponent's item or character (if you reveal a copy). The influence attempt is automatically succesful. Opponent may cancel this attempt by discarding (for no effect) Orders from Lugburz or a command card from hand or this company.

Whoever plays the Lugburz card more convincingly, wins. And, it might be a way to get rid of I'll Report You's.

I like Jambo's version. Where it really helps is with overt FWs, who can only use the original Orders to play Ulkaur or Troll-Chiefs (with Thrall).

I dont like the ones here. Automatic is too strong and the version of Thorsten neuters covert companies, who dont play comand cards and Orders.

Ringbearer wrote:I dont like the ones here. Automatic is too strong and the version of Thorsten neuters covert companies, who dont play comand cards and Orders.

wise!

Still wiser would be to think of some creative options. Anyway, if you can cancel an influence attempt with Orders V, covert companies might include it in deck or sideboard too So, can make that an alternate.

I just like the idea of Orders in some interactive way, you know, one minion company claiming that the other must do something because the big Boss has ordained it. Gorbag saying: "me and the boys will have us some fun with that little guy" and then Shagrat saying: he must not be touched, it's Orders from Lugburz.

If you still want the card to have an effect with or on leaders, perhaps make it interactive only for overt minion companies. That is probably already the majority of the minions around, but probably makes most sense.

Two orc leaders can be in the same company. It's just waiting for a fight to happen.
I would suggest for the orders that during the organisation phase you make a roll. On a 2-4 the orc get brawling and have to split.