Deep Mines

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2018 ARV should be posted here.
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CDavis7M
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CoE #123 wrote:3 b)
Or, when it’s Ettenmoors and it returns to deck I lose all stages at this site and it isn’t a haven anymore - Deep Mines is still connected with this site or not?
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If Ettenmoors became the surface site of a Deep Mines, it will remain as such as long as that Deep Mines is in play, regardless of Ettenmoor’s protected Wizardhaven status.
Anyone want to guess who ruled differently?
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CDavis7M
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Thorsten the Traveller wrote: Sun May 27, 2018 9:05 am Antonio has a mean One Ring characterless deck, just dumping resources on the table (Armories etc), while waiting for characters to appear at Lórien, then Lucky Search for a ring at Mount Doom with an almost empty playdeck. He's been making lots of friends with this deck :-)
I have a deck like this except Galadriel passes out minor items. How do I achieve the win?
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CDavis7M
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ICE Digest 58 wrote:Question: A character is at a protected WizardHaven (other than Rhosgobel) and decides to move to the Deep Mines site (the player has SP>6). Normally, the site of origin is returned to the location-deck (or discarded) at the end of the movement/hazard-phase. (I like to keep it with the Deep Mines-card so as to make visible which protected WizardHaven is the surface-site.) If returned to the location-deck (or discarded) the card(s) that made the site a protected WizardHaven are discarded. The Deep Mines site now has no surface-site. Now you are stuck there.

Answer: Yup. You're stuck there.
ICE Digest 60 and 61 wrote:Question 1: [re: getting stuck in the Deep Mines]
Firstly, I think the assumption that the surface site doesn't exist anymore is wrong. Which site is the surface site is set upon declaration of the move to the Deep Mines. If at that moment Ettenmoors is your protected Wizardhaven, Ettenmoors becomes the
surface site.

Answer 1: Except the surface site is *not* referenced to as 'the site you moved from,' it is references to as 'the protected Wizardhaven.' By my reading, that means you must return to a protected Wizardhaven. Also, if it is not the protected Wizardhaven, you have no way to reference which site is the surface site. Admittedly, even with a protected Wizardhaven you can have a couple possibilities to remember between, but if the site is no longer a Wizardhaven you have no marker at all.

Question 2: Returning to the Deep Mines thing, this means that you are always able to return to the Mines' surface site.

Answer 2: If it has one. By my reading, it no longer does.
ICE Digest 62 wrote:Deep Mines, card erratum: Add "Cannot be duplicated on a given Wizarhaven."
[Effective 4/20/98]
ICE Digest 69 wrote:Question 1: Okay, here's the scenario. I send a company down to the Deep Mines. During the next organization phase, I play To The Uttermost Foundations, which taps the site. I send the company back up to the Wizardhaven, and then slap down a Bridge so they can move again, down to another Deep Mines. Does this count as the "different Under-Deeps site" required by TTUF(oS)? Or do I have to go somewhere else.

Answer 1: Since Deep Mines cannot be duplicated on a given Wizardhaven, it would not count as the different Under-deeps site. Deep Mines, card erratum: Add "Cannot be duplicated on a given Wizardhaven." [Effective 4/20/98]

Question 2: Does this mean that you can't have two Deep Mines with the same Wizardhaven surface site in play
a) at the same time, or
b) during the whole game?

Answer 2: At the same time.

Question 3: How do these two rulings work together? According to the second one you can enter Deep Mines from a WH, leave, and go back down again, but according to the first one, you haven't been to two different sites. What does this mean? Are those two sites the same site? Are they the same site only for interpreting TtUF? In short, what gives? :)

Answer 3: ??? It means what it means. The second Deep Mines can be played (once the first one is gone), but it is not considered a different Under-deeps site.
ICE Digest 69 wrote:Question: Deep Mines @ Card erratum: Add "Cannot be duplicated on a given Wizardhaven." Effective [4/20/98]. I guess this means that you cannot go to two deep-mines on the same turn (from the same haven). But does this also mean that you can go only once to a deep-mines under say Isengard when you tap the deep-mines? I know you may have more than one copy in your location deck.

Answer: Do you mean, can you go to one, tap it, leave it and discard it, and then
go to another? If so, the answer is yes.
ICE Digest 94 wrote:Question: I read an previous ruling which said it is illegal for a company to move from a Deep Mines site to the surface Wizardhaven, and using Bridge to move down to another Deep Mines site. The reason given was that you are not allowed to have more than one Deep Mines associated with the same Wizardhaven. But it seems to me that the original Deep Mines would get discarded before the new one is played (presuming no characters are left there) thus avoiding the prohibition of duplicating the site.

Answer: If the first Deep Mines is discarded, you could move to another one.
If the first Deep Mines is still in play, you could not.
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Theo
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Even ICE Netreps can get confused.
ICE Netrep circa 99/3/11 wrote:> - If a Fallen Wizard company at a protected Wiz-Haven moves to the
> Deep-Mines and the haven becomes unproteced: Can the company return or are
> they stuck?

No, they can always return to the surface site.
Anyway, probably better to take ICE rulings to the other good thread.
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CDavis7M
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Theo wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:28 am Even ICE Netreps can get confused.
ICE Netrep circa 99/3/11 wrote:> - If a Fallen Wizard company at a protected Wiz-Haven moves to the
> Deep-Mines and the haven becomes unproteced: Can the company return or are
> they stuck?

No, they can always return to the surface site.
Anyway, probably better to take ICE rulings to the other good thread.
But that was from Van, not from Ichabod. You're clealy misunderstanding Van's position. Ichabod's previous ruling holds instead. So, no, you can't always return to the surface site.
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Konrad Klar
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I propose the following errata:

"A company may move to this site only from one of your protected Wizardhavens [W] and only if you have more than 6 stage points. This site of yours is the surface site for Deep Mines (i.e., the sites are adjacent and the movement roll required to move between them is 0). You receive the three stage points if any of your companies are at the site. May be duplicated in a location deck. Cannot be duplicated on a given site. 'The lodes lead away north towards Carahadras, and down into darkness.'-LotRII"

or

"A company may move to this site from one of your protected Wizardhavens [W] if you have more than 6 stage points. This site of yours is the surface site for Deep Mines (i.e., the sites are adjacent and the movement roll required to move between them is 0). You receive the three stage points if any of your companies are at the site. May be duplicated in a location deck. Cannot be duplicated on a given site. 'The lodes lead away north towards Carahadras, and down into darkness.'-LotRII"

Changes in bold.

The first version excludes a possibility to move to Deep Mines from a site connected by Gnawed Ways, the second version does not.
Use of the phrase "This site of yours is the surface site for Deep Mines" instead of "This site is the surface site for Deep Mines" means that opponent's versions of the site are not considered the surface sites of the Deep Mines (precedence established by Caverns Unchoked).
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