Council of Elrond

Make the card "Short-Event or Permanent-Event" and change its text accordingly.

As a short-event bring one hazard creature of the following type from your discard pile to your hand: Maia, Elf, Dwarf, or Dúnedain.
Alternatively, as a short-event bring a Maia permanent-event from active play to your hand.
Alternatively, as a permanent-event make a roll (draw a #)-if the result is greater than 8, bring an eliminated Elf or Maia hazard creature to its owner's discard pile and place this card in your opponent's marshalling point pile (do not discard it).

What happens to the card if the roll is 8 or less? Can it be played if there's no Elf/Maia hazard creature eliminated?

Jose-san wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 7:19 am What happens to the card if the roll is 8 or less?

Nothing. And this requires a correction. Thanks for noticing it.

Jose-san wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 7:19 am Can it be played if there's no Elf/Maia hazard creature eliminated?

Yes.

Proposed change is now:

As a short-event bring one hazard creature of the following type from your discard pile to your hand: Maia, Elf, Dwarf, or Dúnedain.
Alternatively, as a short-event bring a Maia permanent-event from active play to your hand.
Alternatively, as a permanent-event make a roll (draw a #)-if the result is greater than 8, bring an eliminated Elf or Maia hazard creature to its owner's discard pile and place this card in your opponent's marshalling point pile. If the result is less than 9, discard this card.

What about this wording?

As a short-event bring one hazard creature of the following type from your discard pile to your hand: Maia, Elf, Dwarf, or Dúnedain.
Alternatively, as a short-event bring a Maia permanent-event from active play to your hand.
Alternatively, as a permanent-event make a roll (draw a #)-if the result is greater than 8, bring an eliminated Elf or Maia hazard creature to its owner's discard pile and place this card in your opponent's marshalling point pile, otherwise, discard this card.

I think there's a problem if the roll is >8, but there is no eliminated Elf/Maia creature.

If it is actually problem. Player may have a hope that at resolution there will be eliminated Elf/Maia creature, but it may be beyond hope.

OK. Version proposed by you is closer to original version.
Accepted.

I think I had a post about why the need to make the third option a permanent-event? If placed in the MP pile it doesn't matter what type of event it is. And as a short event, the "otherwise discard" is inherent.

I guess I don't understand the motive for this proposed change. Is it to clarify "place this card in your opponent's MP pile for 2 MP instead of discarding"?

And answer was something like: it is cosmetic. Actually "(do not discard it)" makes the trick.

Because normally permanent-events persist in play and short-event do not.
Of course a trick may change almost anything. There are a cards played tapped that do not untap in untap phase (To the Uttermost Foundations), there are possible a long-events that are not discarded in an opponent's long-event phase etc.

Answer is now: to replace a trick where it is not necessary with straight solution.

Answer is now: to replace a trick where it is not necessary with straight solution.

I don't think the card has ever created a problem in its interpretation, and there is also no real rules-issue involved, rather it is not elegant.

But changing all non-elegant stuff also has its downsides, so for me this is not worth it.

If played as a permanent event when does the hazard player have to make the roll?

a) Immediately after RBAH is played as a permanent event.
b) Any time after RBAH has been played as a permanent event during any of opponent's m/h-phases if the hazard player chooses to do so.

Immediately when the card resolves. Once.

Thorsten the Traveller wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:19 am

Answer is now: to replace a trick where it is not necessary with straight solution.

I don't think the card has ever created a problem in its interpretation, and there is also no real rules-issue involved, rather it is not elegant.

But changing all non-elegant stuff also has its downsides, so for me this is not worth it.

#ELRONDBOT_REMINDME(10 years)

I'll check back to see if anyone was helped.