Multi-player Games

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2018 ARV should be posted here.
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Konrad Klar
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Multi-player Games

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:36 am

CRF, Rulings by Term, Multi-player Games wrote:Only the moving player, and the hazard player drawing cards based on his movement,
may take advantage of drawing cards, including cards drawn for events like The
Nazgul are Abroad and From the Pits of Angband. These two players are also the only
ones who may discard a card at the end of the turn. All players reset their hand size
when any turn or movement/hazard phase ends.
Apparently end-of-turn phase has been mistaken as end of turn.
There is a player's movement/hazard phase and a company's movement/hazard phase. Hand is reconciled only after a company's movement/hazard phase.

I propose the following change:

Only the resource player, and the hazard player drawing cards based on his movement,
may take advantage of drawing cards, including cards drawn for events like The
Nazgul are Abroad and From the Pits of Angband. These two players are also the only
ones who may discard a card in end-of-turn phase. All players reset their hand size
in end-of-turn phase or when any company's movement/hazard phase ends.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

dirhaval
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Re: Multi-player Games

Post by dirhaval » Tue May 08, 2018 7:05 pm

I like to add my experience with multi-player games. Okay, I was the only player so make that multi-avatar (40 at a time) game experience.
I can live with the proposed change given as stated by Konrad Klar.

It is true that there are one player's movement/hazard phase and zero, one, or multiple company movement/hazard phases each turn.
I want the community to fully consider the relatively high number of cards drawn by the "other" players as proposed in the change.
Think about only resetting hand for the "other" players just before the site phase and to end the turn (i.e. not allowing to play cards like normal (e.g. Twilight).

First, any player not allowed to play hazards that turn can still play cards (e.g. Twilight, corruption support, or during CvCC). That will allow slots in the hand allowing drawing cards thus having more chance to affect the current turn. Do you want that? For example, another hazard player (not you) uses Ren the Unclean to cause corruption checks having everyone use a corruption support resource (allowed right for everyone?). Then that same turn the resource player sends a company to your site to play A Malady Without Healing. If you could draw cards more often, then you have more of a chance to draw more corruption support cards to handle the site phase and thus mute that resource player's actions. Again, do you really want that in a multi-player game that takes time to set-up?

Second, if other players can play hazards, then these other players can burn cards as on-guard cards knowing more cards can be drawn for their own resource turn. Thus, more hazards have a chance to mute resource players. My 24-turn, 40 avatar practice game shows that a tough company (Thorin, Dain, Elladan, and Beregond) fully-loaded with battle-gear can be annihilated every few turns if hand sizes can be reset as proposed.

Overall, I can live with the current proposal. It is the most fluid of the possibilities, which if over-powered will readily be shown and thus a change will be made afterwards by participants in future games. I do not want to place a wide restriction on sagacious players of this fine game, so again if the proposed change by Konrad Klar is accepted, then I will be a supporter of it over the hills and under the hills.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Multi-player Games

Post by Konrad Klar » Tue May 08, 2018 8:43 pm

dirhaval wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 7:05 pm
It is true that there are one player's movement/hazard phase and zero, one, or multiple company movement/hazard phases each turn.
Just that.

So if all players would reset their hand size when any movement/hazard phase ends, they would reset their hand size one more time per turn than they do it in two-players game. Without proposed change.

With proposed change a players reset their hand size when any company's movement/hazard phase ends (but not when player's movement/hazard phase ends, at this time in two-players game hand is not reconciled).
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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Theo
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Re: Multi-player Games

Post by Theo » Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 am

@dirhaval - I super appreciate your thoughts about the multiplayer balance. My feelings concur that the current rules (as supposedly intended) aren't set up for a very enjoyable experience, and I'd like to see them revisited from the ground up. Perhaps a temporary placeholder in this direction would be that players simply aren't allowed to reset their hand size except on turns where they are the resource or hazard player. Play all the Twilights you want, but delay reconciling?

This proposal does seem like it fixes the obvious miss-wording in the rules as they currently stand, putting desired changes aside.
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.

Jose-san
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Re: Multi-player Games

Post by Jose-san » Thu May 10, 2018 10:51 am

Theo wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 am
@dirhaval - I super appreciate your thoughts about the multiplayer balance. My feelings concur that the current rules (as supposedly intended) aren't set up for a very enjoyable experience, and I'd like to see them revisited from the ground up. Perhaps a temporary placeholder in this direction would be that players simply aren't allowed to reset their hand size except on turns where they are the resource or hazard player. Play all the Twilights you want, but delay reconciling?

This proposal does seem like it fixes the obvious miss-wording in the rules as they currently stand, putting desired changes aside.
Actually, this is how Arda works.

Vastor Peredhil
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Re: Multi-player Games

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Thu May 10, 2018 11:13 am

and ARDA ist deadly 😂

dirhaval
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Re: Multi-player Games

Post by dirhaval » Sun May 13, 2018 5:06 am

I like to bring to the idea that the resource and hazard players can reset hand at the start of their turn, due to possible playing of cards while not on center stage. Many times in that mega multi-player game the resource player starts the movement/hazard phase with 4 cards and the hazard player has a broken pipe and a half-eaten apple to throw among five cards. Reset to start the turn. Just an idea.

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