Beginning/end of phase and turn

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2018 ARV should be posted here.
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Konrad Klar
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Beginning/end of phase and turn

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:36 pm

It is not clear when exactly a beginning of phase/turn ends and when exactly an end of phase/turn begins and ends.
Therefore it is unclear when exactly an actions that may be taken only at (or are triggered by) beginning/end of phase/turn may be (or are) declared.


I propose following regulation of the questions:

Acronyms:

ABP: An actions that may be taken only at (or are triggered by) beginning of given phase or a turn.
AEP: An actions that may be taken only at (or are triggered by) end of given phase or a turn.

Beginning of a phase/turn:

This period begins at start of a phase/turn and ends when all players announce that they will not declare any ABP starting a chain of effects and when all triggered ABP are resolved.
Only actions that may be declared in response to ABP are other ABP and actions that target a dice-rolling actions and actions that target declared event.
Triggered ABP are declared before ABP that may be taken by players.

End of a phase/turn:

This period begins when all players announce that they will not declare any action other than AEP starting a chain of effects and when all declared actions other that AEP are resolved.
This period ends when all players announce that they will not declare any action and when all declared actions are resolved.
Only actions that may be declared in response to AEP are other AEP and actions that target a dice-rolling actions and actions that target declared event.
Triggered AEP are declared before AEP that may be taken by players.


Examples:

At beginning of end-of-turn phase a player taps Wizard's Staff (ABP). In response other ABP may be declared or action that targets corruption check.
Hazard player passes. Resource player declares New Friendship. Hazard player declares Blind to the West (on declared New Friendship).

At the end of turn there are in play: Covetous Thoughts, The Nazgul Are Abroad, Doors of Night, and From the Pits of Angband.
The corruption check from Covetous Thoughts is declared first. Players may declare in response action that targets the cc, or declare returning a Nazgul, or unique Dragon manifestation or Drake. The latter actions may be also declared after chain of effects started by cc from Covetous Thoughts is resolved.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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CDavis7M
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Re: Beginning/end of phase and turn

Post by CDavis7M » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:17 pm

Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:36 pm
It is not clear when exactly a beginning of phase/turn ends and when exactly an end of phase/turn begins and ends.
Therefore it is unclear when exactly an actions that may be taken only at (or are triggered by) beginning/end of phase/turn may be (or are) declared.

Examples:

At beginning of end-of-turn phase a player taps Wizard's Staff (ABP). In response other ABP may be declared or action that targets corruption check.
Hazard player passes. Resource player declares New Friendship. Hazard player declares Blind to the West (on declared New Friendship).

At the end of turn there are in play: Covetous Thoughts, The Nazgul Are Abroad, Doors of Night, and From the Pits of Angband.
The corruption check from Covetous Thoughts is declared first. Players may declare in response action that targets the cc, or declare returning a Nazgul, or unique Dragon manifestation or Drake. The latter actions may be also declared after chain of effects started by cc from Covetous Thoughts is resolved.
What is the purpose of this clarification? https://councilofelrond.org/forum/viewt ... 103&t=3524

It doesn't matter "when exactly an actions that may be taken only at beginning/end of phase/turn" are declared because there are no timing issues. At least not in the examples given.


Regardless, the beginnings and ends of the phases are clear. The beginning of one phase happens after the end of the previous phase in the order shown in the turn summary. The actions triggered by the beginning/end of the phase are declared according to the rules on passive conditions.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Beginning/end of phase and turn

Post by Konrad Klar » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:33 am

For players who feel a need of regulation of question: what exactly are constraints of "beginning/end of phase and turn" period (when exactly it is started and when exactly it is terminated).
CDavis7M wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:17 pm
Regardless, the beginnings and ends of the phases are clear.
Contrary to the what may appear, there is no universal agreement in question: when the end of phase happens.
CDavis7M has expressed opinion that end of M/H phase is synonymous of M/H being concluded.
Annotation 25a: A company's movement/hazard phase is concluded when a moving
company removes its site of origin and both players agree to reconcile (discard down
to/draw up to) their hand sizes. No resources (and obviously no hazards) can be
played, and no resource effects can be activated, until the site phase or until both
players have drawn cards for the movement of a following company.
According to Annotation 25a it is a time when "No resources (and obviously no hazards) can be
played, and no resource effects can be activated".

Player's opinions regarding rules may differ, but in order to play they must agree to follow the (interpretation of) rules that are obligatory in their playgroup.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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