Ballot Item # 7 - Removed from the Game & Removed from Play {rules clarification & rules errata}

Cast your votes here for the 2018 Annual Rules Vote.
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Are you in favor of issuing the clarifications and errata described below?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:01 am

Yes
43
86%
No
7
14%
 
Total votes: 50

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the Jabberwock
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Ballot Item # 7 - Removed from the Game & Removed from Play {rules clarification & rules errata}

Post by the Jabberwock » Wed May 16, 2018 12:39 am

INFORMATION
ICE was a little sloppy using the terms "out of play", "removed from play", "out-of-play pile", and "removed from the game." They did not clearly define what each term meant and whether or not all of these terms meant the same thing or something different.

Because of this, there is confusion and conflict given the fact that some cards which are removed from play are clearly still meant to be accounted for in terms of uniqueness, while other cards clearly are not meant to be accounted for in terms of uniqueness. Thus, while ICE seemingly used these terms interchangeably, it is necessary to clarify and define these terms and how they are applied.

There is no quick and easy solution to this, but this ballot item is an attempt to put one foot forward in the right direction of clearing up the confusion. This ballot item consists of one clarification and three errata. The clarification provides a clear definition for these terms, and as a consequence, three errata must be issued in order to ensure the rules below continue to function as intended. These three errata are directly linked to the clarification (issuing the clarification and not the errata would create even more confusion and prevent these rules from carrying out their intended purpose.)

BALLOT ITEM # 7:
Are you in favor of issuing the following rules clarification and errata?

RULES CLARIFICATION
Cards "removed from play" are placed in an out-of-play pile and are still considered for purposes of uniqueness. Cards "removed from the game" can be placed anywhere outside of the playing environment and no longer have any affect or interaction with the game.
RULES ERRATUM # 1
Change This:
CRF, Tournaments, The Character Draft wrote:Characters left over from the character pool may be placed either in the play deck, or out of play, but may not be placed in the sideboard.
To This:
CRF, Tournaments, The Character Draft wrote:Characters left over from the character pool may be placed either in the play deck, or removed from the game, but may not be placed in the sideboard.
(changes in bold for clarity)

RULES ERRATUM # 2
Change This:
Balrog, Getting Ready to Play, Miscellaneous wrote:If you are a Balrog player, your opponent may not play any of the following cards:
The Balrog (Ally), The Black Council, Durin’s Bane, Balrog of Moria, Reluctant Final Parting. However, if at any time your opponent has one of these cards in his hand, he may remove it from play and bring one card from his sideboard into his play deck.
To This:
Balrog, Getting Ready to Play, Miscellaneous wrote:If you are a Balrog player, your opponent may not play any of the following cards:
The Balrog (Ally), The Black Council, Durin’s Bane, Balrog of Moria, Reluctant Final Parting. However, if at any time your opponent has one of these cards in his hand, he may remove it from the game and bring one card from his sideboard into his play deck.
(changes in bold for clarity)

RULES ERRATUM # 3
Change This:
Dragons, Manifestations of Dragons wrote:If at any time an attack from a manifestation of a unique Dragon is defeated or if the manifestation is
otherwise removed from the game:
• All existing manifestations in play of the same Dragon are removed from the game.
• No further manifestations of the same Dragon may be played.
• The Dragon’s lair no longer has an automatic-attack.
To This:
Dragons, Manifestations of Dragons wrote:If at any time an attack from a manifestation of a unique Dragon is defeated or if the manifestation is
otherwise removed from play:
• All existing manifestations in play of the same Dragon are removed from play.
• No further manifestations of the same Dragon may be played.
• The Dragon’s lair no longer has an automatic-attack.
(changes in bold for clarity)


CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR VOTE:
If you vote YES, then:
- You are in favor of making a distinction between "removed from play" and "removed from the game" and support the premise that one considers uniqueness and the other does not.
- News of Doom and Favor of the Valar would be playable by each player one time during a game rather than one time only per game by any one player. Note: this reverses Van's ruling in ICE Digest 581 (see below).

If you vote NO, then the terms "removed from play" and "removed from the game" will remain unchanged and unclear. As such, each group of players and each tournament organizer will be tasked with deciding how to interpret the various cards and situations encountered.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
ICE RULING DIGEST 581
2 - If my opponent played News of Doom, can I play my copy of the card later in the same game?
No. News of Doom in unique. Only one copy can be played during a game.
This answer by Van is confusing. Is he trying to say that because News of Doom is unique and removed from the game that only one copy may be played during a game by one player or the other? Or is he saying that the properties of News of Doom as a hazard short event which is removed from the game make this card unique (unlike others)? Or is he saying that because News of Doom is unique, only one copy may be played during a game, regardless of the fact it is removed from the game? (This would run contrary to many other unique cards which are routinely played more than once during a game.)
Whatever Van meant, it is important to note that a YES majority of this ballot item will overturn Van's ruling. This is because "removed from the game" cards will no longer have any effect on the game per the definition above. The alternative is to issue new errata for both News of Doom and Favor of the Valar, but that was decided against at this time for this proposal.
- Note: You must vote in favor of all clarification/errata presented above, or vote against all clarification/errata presented above. There is no option to vote for some and against others.

REFERENCE TOPICS: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3340 AND viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3238

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