Ballot Item # 10 - Shelob & The Will of Sauron with Doors of Night {errata}

Cast your votes here for the 2018 Annual Rules Vote.
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Are you in favor of issuing the errata described below?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:01 am

Yes
48
92%
No
4
8%
 
Total votes: 52

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the Jabberwock
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Ballot Item # 10 - Shelob & The Will of Sauron with Doors of Night {errata}

Post by the Jabberwock » Wed May 16, 2018 1:44 am

INFORMATION
There are over 60 hazards which have some affect if Doors of Night is in play. There are only 2 hazards, however, that have a consequence when Doors of Night leaves play. These are Shelob and The Will of Sauron.

There has been considerable debate as to what is meant by “Doors of Night leaves play.” Does this mean that any copy of the card titled “Doors of Night” leaves play? Or does it mean that the Doors of Night effect ceases to be in play? It is unclear which ICE intended.

Peril Returned creates the Doors of Night effect without the Doors of Night card being in play. This allows the 60+ hazards which require Doors of Night being in play to function, however it asks the question: Does “Doors of Night leaves play” mean the same thing as “Doors of Night effect ceasing to be in play”?

Due to this confusion, it is necessary to determine what specifically “Doors of Night leaves play” means. The errata proposed in this topic attempts to solve this problem in a clean and straightforward manner, however, voting against the errata simply means that you are in favor of an alternate interpretation.

Consider the following:
Peril Returned is in play. Gates of Morning is not in play. The Doors of Night (card) is not in play. The Doors of Night effect being created meets the requirement for The Will of Sauron to be played. If Peril Returned leaves play, and the Doors of Night effect ceases to be in play, should The Will of Sauron be discarded?

Consider the following:
Peril Returned is in play. Gates of Morning is not in play. The Doors of Night (card) is in play. There are currently two sources creating the Doors of Night effect to be in play. The Doors of Night effect being created meets the requirement for The Will of Sauron to be played. If the Doors of Night card is discarded, but the Doors of Night effect remains in play due to Peril Returned, should The Will of Sauron be discarded?

BALLOT ITEM # 10:
Are you in favor of issuing the following errata?

SHELOB
Change This:
Unique. Spider. May be played as a hazard creature (with one strike) or as a permanent‐event. As a creature, may be played at any site in Imlad Morgul or Gorgoroth. If Doors of Night is in play, Shelob may be played as a permanent‐event that gives +1 prowess and +1 strikes to all Spider and Animal attacks. She may opt to attack from a permanent‐event state and receive these bonuses, but her attack counts as one against the hazard limit. Discard when Shelob attacks or when Doors of Night leaves play.
To This:
Unique. Spider. May be played as a hazard creature (with one strike) or as a permanent‐event. As a creature, may be played at any site in Imlad Morgul or Gorgoroth. If Doors of Night is in play, Shelob may be played as a permanent‐event that gives +1 prowess and +1 strikes to all Spider and Animal attacks. She may opt to attack from a permanent‐event state and receive these bonuses, but her attack counts as one against the hazard limit. Discard when Shelob attacks or if Doors of Night is not in play.
(changes in bold for clarity)

THE WILL OF SAURON
Change This:
Playable only if Doors of Night is in play. All hazard long‐events remain in play until this card is discarded. Discard this card when Doors of Night leaves play, or when any play deck is exhausted. When this card is discarded, all hazard long‐events are discarded. Cannot be duplicated.
To This:
Playable only if Doors of Night is in play. All hazard long‐events remain in play until this card is discarded. Discard this card if Doors of Night is not in play, or when any play deck is exhausted. When this card is discarded, all hazard long‐events are discarded. Cannot be duplicated.
(changes in bold for clarity)

If this errata proposal results in a majority NO vote, then the following clarifications will be issued:

SHELOB
Interpret "when Doors of Night leaves play" as "when any card titled Doors of Night leaves play."
THE WILL OF SAURON
Interpret "when Doors of Night leaves play" as "when any card titled Doors of Night leaves play."

CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR VOTE:
If you vote YES, then you are in favor of Shelob and The Will of Sauron being discarded only when the Doors of Night effect ceases to be in play. This means that if the Doors of Night card is discarded but the Doors of Night effect remains (ie. Peril Returned in play or a second copy of Doors of Night card resolves) then Shelob and The Will of Sauron will remain in play. Therefore Shelob and The Will of Sauron will only be discarded when all sources creating the Doors of Night effect cease to be in play.

If you vote NO, then you are in favor of Shelob and The Will of Sauron being discarded only when any copy of the card titled “Doors of Night” leaves play. This means that if Peril Returned is the only source creating the Doors of Night effect, then removing Peril Returned (and thus the Doors of Night effect) from play will not force the discard of Shelob or The Will of Sauron.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
- Voting NO on this item means you could have a scenario where The Will of Sauron and Shelob are in play with no Doors of Night effect in play (and even with Gates of Morning in play). This seems contrary to the intent of these hazards.
- It is unclear how a YES or NO result for this errata proposal will affect The Will of Sauron based hazard strategies. Currently it is up to each playgroup or tournament organizer to make a determination on this issue. A YES result could make it harder to get rid of The Will of Sauron if multiple sources of Doors of Night are in play. On the other hand, a NO result would make it harder to get rid of The Will of Sauron if Peril Returned is the only source for the Doors of Night effect in play.

REFERENCE TOPICS: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3293 and viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3175

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