BALLOT ITEM # 34: Special Orc & Troll Rules for Fallen-wizards {rules erratum}

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Are you in favor of issuing the erratum described below?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:01 am

Yes
44
92%
No
4
8%
 
Total votes: 48

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Thorsten the Traveller
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BALLOT ITEM # 34: Special Orc & Troll Rules for Fallen-wizards {rules erratum}

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon May 28, 2018 8:13 am

INFORMATION
In Middle-earth: The White Hand Rules (ME:WH), a special section details rules for using Orc and Troll characters, and companies containing an Orc or Troll, by Fallen-wizard players.
- Some of these rules deal with the particular situation of Fallen-wizards. Example: "A hero resource may not target an Orc or Troll character."
- Some of these mimic rules for minion characters or companies in The Lidless Eye Rules (ME:LE). Example: "Corruption checks for an Orc or Troll character are handled as if he were a minion character."
- And some mimic rules for Orc and Troll characters and companies in the ME:LE rules. Example: "Unless at a Wizardhaven, an Orc or Troll cannot be in the same company as an Elf, Dwarf, Dúnadan, or Hobbit."

However, some rules from the ME:LE Rules applying to minion characters and companies are not mentioned in the ME:WH Rules. These are:
- "Orc scouts only count half towards a company's size (round up)."
- "Unless at a Darkhaven, a company may only contain one leader."
- "If one of your minion companies defeat a creature, you may place the creature's card under the control of any Orc or Troll character that faced a strike from the creature's attack."

Since Fallen-wizard players are hero players, and not Ringwraith players, these ME:LE rules do not apply to them, nor to their characters and companies. In your opinion, is this correct, with respect to Orc and Troll characters and the companies containing them?

BALLOT ITEM # 34:
Are you in favor of issuing the following erratum to the MEWH Rules?

SPECIAL ORC & TROLL RULES
Change This:
A company with any Orc or Troll characters is an overt company. In addition,...
To This:
Unless otherwise outlined below, Orc and Troll characters in play by a Fallen-wizard player are subject to the rules for Orc and Troll characters in play by a minion player, and companies containing an Orc or Troll are subject to the rules for company composition for a minion player.
A company with any Orc or Troll characters is an overt company. In addition,...
(relevant part is bolded)


CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR VOTE:
If you vote YES, then:
- Orc scouts in Fallen-wizard companies count half towards a company's size (round up),
- Orcs and Trolls in play by a Fallen-wizard can take trophies,
- Fallen-wizard companies cannot normally contain multiple Orc and/or Troll leaders (unless at a Wizardhaven).

If you vote NO, then the rules are not changed, which means that Orc/Troll characters and companies in play by Fallen-wizards are not subject to these ME:LE rules.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
What justifies having one set of rules from ME:LE copied in the Special Orc and Troll Rules, but not another?

The ME:WH Rules are ambigious. On the one hand it It is explicitly mentioned that "All of the normal METW rules apply except for the specific exceptions outlined in these rules. The MELE rules that concern Wizards also apply to Fallen-wizards." This suggests that the implication of ME:LE rules for ME:WH was duely considered.

One the other hand, "overt companies are minion companies for hazards that can only attack/effect minion companies (i.e. Sons of Kings)." This means that at least in some respects overt Fallen-wizard companies are to be regarded as minion companies.
Also, it is stated that: "Orcs that are Half-orcs are special (...). Half-orcs cannot take trophies." This could suggest that normal (non-Half-)Orcs in play by a Fallen-wizard can take trophies.

It is thus not clear whether ICE intended for Fallen-wizard Orcs & Trolls to not be subject to the 3 listed ME:LE rules, or whether it was an oversight not to mention these in the ME:WH rules.

REFERENCE TOPICS: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3354
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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