Targets

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2019 ARV should be posted here.
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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

CDavis7M wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:16 pm
I never said Gollum the card is the same as the effect in the card text of the Gollum card. "Gollum" as used here is shorthand for "Gollum's effect" and I indicated that. At least read a single sentence with complete context.
If so, you are doing much to obfuscate your real opinion and your real point.
I disagree. Gollum (i.e., Gollum's effect) DOES target The One Ring.
As though someone stated that effect of tapping the Gollum does not target The One Ring.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Targets

Post by CDavis7M »

Thanks for rules lawyering individual fragments of my statements without explaining why you think that the end conclusion is wrong.
CDavis7M wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:18 pm
Konrad Klar wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:49 am
Player has right to target for discard opponent's The One Ring (and his own Gollum) by tapping (his own) Gollum.
This does not count as targeting The One Ring by Gollum.
I disagree.

...

Gollum's on-tap effect targets The One Ring. Dwarven Ring of Durin's Tribe (its on-tap effect) targets the site the character is at. Hidden Haven as played targets a site.

But yes, I agree that the CRF statement on targets could be updated to include sites and i have presented one way to do it above.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

CDavis7M wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:26 pm
Thanks for rules lawyering individual fragments of my statements without explaining why you think that the end conclusion is wrong.
Konrad Klar wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:49 am
Player has right to target for discard opponent's The One Ring (and his own Gollum) by tapping (his own) Gollum.
This does not count as targeting The One Ring by Gollum.

So mentioning Hidden Haven and Dwarven Ring of Durin's Tribe as comparable cards in context of targeting makes a confusion.
In case you forgot the context you have created:
CDavis7M wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:30 pm
You cannot target an opponent's characters, sites, or resources with your own resources (e.g., Hidden Haven or Dwarven Ring of Durin's Tribe).
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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CDavis7M
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Re: Targets

Post by CDavis7M »

"Resources" there refers to both cards and effects (based on the rulings above). But yes, this sentence in the CRF could be more clear by specifically stating "resource cards and their effects." A good suggestion.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

CDavis7M wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:02 pm
"Resources" there refers to both cards and effects (based on the rulings above). But yes, this sentence in the CRF could be more clear by specifically stating "resource cards and their effects." A good suggestion.
It could be wrong then, spoiling Gollum, Stinker and minion The Arkenstone.
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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

Or you may change "resource cards " to "resource cards and their effects." and issue errata for Gollum, Stinker and minion The Arkenstone.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Targets

Post by CDavis7M »

From what I can see, none of the ICE digests address these cards with respect to the "Targets" section statements. Presumably these cards are used to discard "opponent's The One Ring" and "opponent's Dwarf character."

See you in 2020.

Anyway, I do think that the proposal is OK. But even better to just fix Hidden Haven itself since that is where the issue will arise and that is where the player will look (if only there was a printout).

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CDavis7M
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Re: Targets

Post by CDavis7M »

Konrad Klar wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:43 pm
CRF, Ruling by Terms, Targets wrote:You cannot target an opponent's character or resources with your own resources.
I do not know a rule that forbids a targeting of opponent's sites with your own resources. Targeting of opponent's sites with your own resources seems odd.
Player #2's sites are not in Player #1's Play Area.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

CDavis7M wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:47 am
Player #2's sites are not in Player #1's Play Area.
I do not know a rule that forbids a targeting of opponent's sites with your own resources.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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CDavis7M
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Re: Targets

Post by CDavis7M »

Konrad Klar wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:16 am
CDavis7M wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:47 am
Player #2's sites are not in Player #1's Play Area.
I do not know a rule that forbids a targeting of opponent's sites with your own resources.
Even children are taught "yours" and "mine"

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

You CAN target opponent's resources, characters, sites with your own hazards.
Regardless of what children understand or not.

I do not know a rule that forbids a targeting of opponent's sites with your own resources.
Regardless of what children understand or not.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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CDavis7M
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Re: Targets

Post by CDavis7M »

Konrad Klar wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:31 pm
I do not know a rule that forbids a targeting of opponent's sites with your own resources.
There is no rule ALLOWING it. The only things that can be done in the game are those allowed by the rules. There are many things that cannot be done in the game but are not forbidden by the rules.


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There is no rule forbidding children from taking cherries from another child's tree or pot. But even children know how games work.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Targets

Post by Konrad Klar »

CDavis7M wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:08 pm
There are many things that cannot be done in the game but are not forbidden by the rules.
There are more impossible things than forbidden things.
There are no not forbidden things that are not allowed in the game.
Unless you will arbitrarily state "targeting opponent's site with your own resource is not forbidden, but you cannot do it, because it is not allowed too".
CDavis7M wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:08 pm
There is no rule forbidding children from taking cherries from another child's tree or pot. But even children know how games work.
I can believe that you have grown playing games without rules that was working anyway.
You are providing an illustration very often.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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