Creatures played as an automatic-attack (playabilty conditions)

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2019 ARV should be posted here.
Vastor Peredhil
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@Christoph edit your above post to say "Morgul Rats" not just "morgul" other than that I agree

yours Vastor
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Khamul the Easterling
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Done, thank you!
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CDavis7M
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Khamul the Easterling wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:51 am From these, I'd form the following proposal for this year's ARV:

Creatures that can be played as an automatic-attack and that must be normally playable keyed to or normally keyed to a specific site by type or region, may be only played if these requirements are met as written on their card text.
I agree. I think this is the correct interpretation of "normal" as ruled in the CRF.

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Also, looking at this again it's clear that Fell-beast could never be played as an automatic-attack at Framsburg regardless of any interpretation differences mentioned above:
Framsburg wrote:Automatic-attacks: When a company enters this site, opponent may play one creature from his hand that is treated in all ways as the site's automatic-attack (if defeated, creature is discarded). It must normally be playable keyed to a Ruins & Lairs, Shadow-hold, single wilderness, or Shadow-land.
Wild Fell Beast wrote:Two Shadow-lands in site path are required.
Wild Fell Beast is not normally playable keyed to Shadow-land, instead two shadow-lands in site path are required. So Wild Fell Beast cannot be played as an automatic attack at Framsburg.

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Also, looking at the CRF on "Normal"
CRF wrote:Normal means as written on the card, not considering other card's effects. Note that this definition only applies to effects referring to card texts.
I think it's important to note that (A) "normal" includes the card's own effects but not other cards effects, but not necessarily non-effects of those cards, and (B) "normal" doesn't specifically exclude other effects of the rules themselves.

(A)

So, Morgul-rats being playable "only if a character in target company is wounded or Doors of Night is in play" is "normally" playable against such companies since a character being wounded is not an "effect" of another card; and Doors of Night being in play is not an "effect" of another card.

Rain-drake is playable at "Ruins & Lairs that has two Wildernesses or one Coastal Sea in its site path." Rain-drake is not normally playable keyed to a Ruins & Lairs unless that Ruins & Lairs has two Wildernesses or one Coastal Sea in its site path. The automatic-attack at Framsburg does not mention having any site path nor regions to be considered for the automatic attack, just the site-type.

Even Beorning Toll, which is normally playable keyed to Framsburg, could not be play as an automatic-attack at Framsburg because it is not normally playable keyed to a Ruins & Lairs.

So this is all consistent with the proposal above.

(B)

"Normal" for Fallen Wizards means as printed on the card but ALSO as governed by the MEWH rules on FW since the rules are not an "effect" of another card. Emerald of the Mariner normally gives 3MP but it normally gives 1MP to a FW. Also note that the CRF states "Note that this definition only applies to effects refering to card texts." The MP given by an item is not part of the items "card text."
Last edited by CDavis7M on Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Theo
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CDavis7M wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:49 pm Also, looking at this again it's clear that Fell-beast could never be played as an automatic-attack at Framsburg regardless of any interpretation differences mentioned above
I believe has been ruled that an attack keyed to double Z is also considered keyed to Z (but not to *a* Z).
CRF wrote: Elven Cloak
Can cancel a strike keyed to one, two or more Wilderness.
...
Angmar Arises, In Darkness Bind Them, and Reaching Shadow may not be used to play creatures keyed to double shadow-lands.
This suggests that parsing interpretation of Framsburg would matter.
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CDavis7M
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Theo wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:51 pm
CDavis7M wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:49 pm Also, looking at this again it's clear that Fell-beast could never be played as an automatic-attack at Framsburg regardless of any interpretation differences mentioned above
I believe has been ruled that an attack keyed to double Z is also considered keyed to Z (but not to *a* Z).
That's a misinterpretation of the earlier sets. A Creature may be "keyed" to wilderness such that it can be cancelled by Elven Cloak and that Creature may also also require two wilderness in its site path. Similarly, Wild Fell Beast can "keyed" to Shadow-land and also require 2 Shadow-lands in the site path. Then the MELE rules were updated to mention "keying" to "double" region-types. You can see how later MELE creatures don't mention 2 regions being required.
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CDavis7M
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ICE Digest 62 wrote: Question: Can someone explain the meaning of "normally" keyable? I mean, consider the following statements: Normal means as written on the card, not considering other cards effects.
3. If DON is in play (or a character is wounded), Morgul-rats can be played as an auto-attack at certain under-deeps sites since they are normally keyable to the shadow/dark holds.

Answer: No, because you have to consider other cards effects to make Morgul-rats playable, so it isn't normally playable.
Huh. My impression (above) was that Morgul-rats was not considering the "effect" of Doors of Night, just whether or not it was in play. This ICE ruling is more restrictive.
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