Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

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Konrad Klar
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Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:39 am

This applies among others to an attacks created by cards like Ash Mountains.

Related thread:

How do hazard creatures which create persistent effects work?

Proposed regulation:

"If a card not in play stated that by some period an action happens when given conditions are met, for purposes of timing the action is treated like an action caused by passive condition."

EDIT: Changed the title of thread.
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Zakath
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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Zakath » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:03 pm

I would probably say rather 'for some duration' than 'by some period' but that's just haggling over language.

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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Konrad Klar » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:02 am

I would say that in some period an action may happen, and an effect of the action may have some duration. :)

Proposed regulation:

"If a card not in play stated that in some period an action happens when given conditions are met, for purposes of timing the action is treated like an action caused by passive condition."

Better?
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Zakath
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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Zakath » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:31 pm

Maybe it would be clearer if we just made it more verbose? I.e. one thing I'm tripping over is using the word 'period' without an 'of what' coming after it.
If an effect of a card that does not remain in play after resolution (i.e. a hazard creature or a short-event) establishes that for a specific period of time one or more actions happen automatically when conditions (as specified on the card) are met, for purposes of timing such actions are treated like actions caused by a passive condition. Such an action is not subject to the rule that an action caused by a passive condition is cancelled if the card that created it is no longer in play when the action resolves, but otherwise follows the rules for passive conditions.
What do you think of the above? After working through that, I think at least the first part is pretty important to spell out - otherwise someone could try to argue that this rule covers permanent-events as well.

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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Konrad Klar » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 am

"If an effect of a card that does not remain in play after resolution (i.e. a hazard creature or a short-event) establishes that for a specific period an action happens when given conditions are met, for purposes of timing the action is treated like an action caused by passive condition."

I would not want the regulation a more verbose.
Timing of and whole matter of Passive Condition is subject of separate set of rules.
They may be potentially changed and then the regulation could be not in sync with the changes (would require changes too).
The actions are treated like actions caused by passive condition for purposes of timing, and not for other purposes.
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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Zakath » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:23 am

Yeah, I think that works. I think I would still prefer 'period of time' but that's just because it makes the sentence sound more natural to me for some reason. I think the meaning is clear enough.

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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:39 am

In the game there is no concept of time* counted in units. A term "time", used sometimes, refers to some point in game.
For the reason "period" or "period of game" sound to me as more appropriate than "period of time" in context of MECCG.

*) I've heard that some players perceive some processes in game as a vector.
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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by the Jabberwock » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:27 am

Is it possible to combine this proposal with this one: https://councilofelrond.org/forum/viewt ... 145&t=3729
since they address very similar issues?

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Re: Order of an actions caused by effects of cards not in play

Post by Konrad Klar » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:06 am

They are independent. If one will pass and other will not it will not be a catastrophe.
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