Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2019 ARV should be posted here.
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Konrad Klar
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Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:50 pm

Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees wrote:Playable on a moving company facing a non-unique hazard creature if Gates of Morning is in play. All attacks of the creature are canceled and all attacks of the next non-unique hazard creature the company faces this turn are also canceled. An untapped character in the company must tap to face any strike from a subsequent hazard creature attack for the rest of the turn. The company can do nothing during its site phase unless it contains a Wizard or you discard Eagle-mounts from your hand. Cannot be duplicated on a given turn.


A character do not tap to strike. An untapped character may opt to take -3 penalty to prowess and remain untapped after strike, if a strike was not successful.

I propose the following erratum:

"Playable on a moving company facing a non-unique hazard creature if Gates of Morning is in play. All attacks of the creature are canceled and all attacks of the next non-unique hazard creature the company faces this turn are also canceled. If available an untapped character in the company must face any strike from a subsequent hazard creature attack and may not opt to remain untapped against the strike for the rest of the turn. The company can do nothing during its site phase unless it contains a Wizard or you discard Eagle-mounts from your hand. Cannot be duplicated on a given turn."
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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Theo
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Re: Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Post by Theo » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:54 pm

My interpretation of the original card is rather that characters are required to tap before facing any such strike, such that they will be guaranteed a minimum -1 penalty.
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Konrad Klar
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Re: Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:21 pm

Because Mechanical Bow also says about "tapping to face a strike" I interpret it as the same error made for the same reason.
The reason is that "taps to face a strike" is shorter than "does not take an option to remain untapped against a strike".
The shorter phrase has higher chance to be adopted by users, sometimes at the cost of an original meaning being malformed.
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Theo
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Re: Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Post by Theo » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:43 pm

Certainly seems plausible.
MELE Example wrote:Lagduf decides to tap to face the strike.
Alternatively, Mechanical Bow might also require the character tap before facing the strike to reduce body by 1. More literal.
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.
Have I not earnestly studied this matter?
Look up "e.g." if e.g. you think that it is an all-encompassing list.

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Re: Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Post by Zakath » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:58 pm

Yeah, I'm with Konrad on this one. I think it would be giving ICE way too much credit to think that they intended to differentiate between 'tapping to face a strike' and 'opting against remaining untapped against a strike'.

Consider also the Balrog's weapons:
Stabbing Tongue of Fire wrote:Unique. Balrog specific. Playable at any tapped or untapped non-Darkhaven Under-deeps site. May only be borne by The Balrog. This item affects The Balrog. +1 prowess when tapping to face a strike. +1 to all body checks resulting from failed strikes against The Balrog. If The Balrog attacks successfully in company vs. company combat, +1 to the defending character's body check.
Whip of Many Thongs wrote:Unique. Balrog specific. Playable at any tapped or untapped non-Darkhaven Under-deeps site. May only be borne by The Balrog. This item affects The Balrog. +1 prowess when tapping to face a strike. If The Balrog is in company vs. company combat, tap this item to cancel all effects of one weapon of your choice (even declared in the same chain of effects) in an opponent's company until the end of the combat. This does not discard the weapon.
If 'tapping to face a strike' is something that you have to do prior to actually facing the strike (thus requiring you to take a -1 penalty to prowess when resolving the strike), then the '+1 to prowess' clauses on those weapons would effectively do nothing. None of the other effects on those weapons are dependent on whether or not the Balrog has used the 'tapping to face to a strike' clause.

I think this might be better resolved by issuing a clarification on the meaning of 'tapping to face a strike' rather than trying to errata every card that uses that language.

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Re: Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees

Post by rezwits » Sun May 12, 2019 7:00 am

Wait wait wait:

You are saying that you get to cancel "possibly" two attacks, and then ICE is saying if that happens you have to TAP when facing? I would propose this erratum:
Fifteen Birds in Five Firtrees wrote:Playable on a moving company facing a non-unique hazard creature if Gates of Morning is in play. All attacks of the creature are canceled and all attacks of the next non-unique hazard creature the company faces this turn are also canceled. An untapped character in the company must tap to face any strike from a subsequent hazard creature attack for the rest of the turn. The company can do nothing during its site phase unless it contains a Wizard or you discard Eagle-mounts from your hand. Cannot be duplicated on a given turn.
rezwits proposal wrote:Playable on a moving company facing a non-unique hazard creature if Gates of Morning is in play. All attacks of the creature are canceled and all attacks of the next non-unique hazard creature the company faces this turn are also canceled. An untapped character in the company must tap while facing any strike from a subsequent hazard creature attack for the rest of the turn. The company can do nothing during its site phase unless it contains a Wizard or you discard Eagle-mounts from your hand. Cannot be duplicated on a given turn.
Two assassins gone to this card, pretty strong... for a Rare tho...
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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