Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Any rule erratum or clarification submission for the upcoming 2019 ARV should be posted here.
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Bandobras Took
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun May 19, 2019 6:56 pm

Actually, the most MPs for the absolute minimal difficulty and risk belong to Radagast, Gandalf, and Pallando, who, be it noted, get their MPs out of havens anyway. They just aren't item MPs. And the 9 MPs granted by a quick trip to the Deep Mines far outstrips the 3 you get at one haven or the other (and rare is the deck that does both), even if it is (slightly) more difficult.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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rezwits
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by rezwits » Sun May 19, 2019 7:34 pm

Vastor Peredhil wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:55 pm
I am all in favor of it, but I could also go on route with the DC rules for play at haven, all MPs card only playable at a haven for that alignment are worth 1 MP (so Wizard's Ring for all wizards, Orcs of Moria for Balrog, and there are some more)

just saying we need not have to have 2 different rules set, when we already came up with good solution

yours Nicolai
Well Dreamcards have a blanket rule for "Haven" resources, and it's fine it works.
Theo wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:43 pm
Alternatively, since rezwits already plays DC, I'm not sure what his motivation is for making this proposal. Impose the DC notion of "balance" on the normal rules set? Why not just keep it in DC?
My only motivation is LEAVE them alone, there seems to be no need, they are just singling out these specific resource, with bias from a long time ago.
Bandobras Took wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:56 pm
Actually, the most MPs for the absolute minimal difficulty and risk belong to Radagast, Gandalf, and Pallando, who, be it noted, get their MPs out of havens anyway. They just aren't item MPs. And the 9 MPs granted by a quick trip to the Deep Mines far outstrips the 3 you get at one haven or the other (and rare is the deck that does both), even if it is (slightly) more difficult.
Agreed, I've played against Radagast (allies) 4 times, and that deck is just silly 6-8 pts, and then able to do the Deep Mines dance also. But IDC, I don't think there is a reason to straight BAN something, cause in essence that's what this rule does, it STRAIGHT bans these cards.

I mean just for funzies, Saruman should be having his Palantír of Orthanc, using First of the Order with Many-coloured Robes and White Light Broken to chill at Isengard and tap every turn with no problems, but this deck is weak when you lose by 1 or 2 pts... just sayin. And mainly if you go this route you just feel cheated, all that work, and you can't get 2 MP!?

Laters...
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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Shapeshifter
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by Shapeshifter » Tue May 21, 2019 3:32 pm

Back in the ICE days – at least in the German tournament scene – it was very popular to let Bilbo sit at the White Towers, telling some marvels, playing the minion Palantir of Elostirion and increase your handsize by one. All with very little risk (haven, almost no corruption issues). Late in the game one could even get the minion Palantir of Orthanc from sideboard, move Bilbo (or any other company) with his 9 body and maybe a Paste to Isengard for another 3 MP. Even if Legacy of Smiths was not out this was still very good as many FW haven squatter decks are short on item MPs. In some of those FW decks the Palantir therefore was the only item MP source.

I am not completely sure about it but I would guess that this was the main reason for ICE’s errata on those Palantiri.
Of course there would have been some counters, but I don’t remember that those were in people’s and ICE’s minds, yet, those days. Here are two of the most obvious examples for strong counters:

- Lobelia/Pilfer on a lone Bilbo with a Palantir

- Neither so Ancient nor so Potent on a stored Palantir (if it was the only source of item MPs) --> this one is not an appropriate counter anymore, though, due to the outcome of last year’s ARV!

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by the Jabberwock » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:56 am

Vastor Peredhil wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:55 pm
just saying we need not have to have 2 different rules set, when we already came up with good solution
Keep in mind that there are some DC rules and/or card errata that some players do not like and would not want to see become part of the standard game rules. Also, DC rules/errata are created by the DC team, not voted on by the entire MECCG community.
Bandobras Took wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:16 pm
As it stands, getting 2 MPs off of a Palantir at Towers/Isengard seems rather paltry compared to the 9 MPs available from taking a trip to the deep mines.
What are the 9 points you are referring to?

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:43 pm

Deeper Shadow for Aiglos+Dragon Helm. Extremely common in tournament FW decks.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Theo
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by Theo » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:59 pm

I'm not saying that kind of thing isn't powerful, but (in my opinion) it is far from the same level of easy.

4 cards required, 3 in hand simultaneously vs. 1 card.
Potential hazard creature attacks vs. none.
Temporal requirement: return to site of origin, tapping out company, do nothing during site phase, or conversion of site type effects; waste of one of the three necessary cards.

To some it might be slightly more vulnerable than a hero company moving to a normal Shadow-Hold Under-deeps and using one or two automatic attack cancelers (well, without the advantage of avoiding potential CvCC/influence attempts).
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.
Have I not earnestly studied this matter?
Look up "e.g." if e.g. you think that it is an all-encompassing list.

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by the Jabberwock » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:28 am

Thanks for the nice discussion guys.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Fallen Wizard MPs for Palantirs

Post by Bandobras Took » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:30 pm

It's not that far from the same level of easy (anti-squatting hazards are pretty common, and agents can't hit the under-deeps at all), and 3-4 times the MP reward more than makes up for it.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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