Fair travel in free domains testing

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Fair travel in free domains testing

Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:30 am

Also on Lure I finaly tried a Gondor deck with Fair Trvel in Free domains -V-.

Here my comment:
I believe this would be a card that wouldn't do the cut in most cases for the deck.

It is not only difficult to benifit from the card, even in a Gondor deck, but also if you manage to play it for a total of 3 regions, in most cases you get a maximum of 3 cards out of it.

Because you can only play it on a moving company. So if you had 8 cards in hand, played at best one other recource in the Org. phase and then play Fair travels on the moving company, then you have 6 on hand. you maximum hand then is elevenen. But as you travel you will draw at least 1 maybe even 2 cards. So if you draw two cards which is likely, then you draw 3 cards for fair travel.
But IK believe this is too less for a card that is that limited playable, because even in a gondor deck you cannot play it at all times. Most times only for 2 cards additional....
And you also have to discard most of those extra cards at end of turn.

I talked with Eric on the Lure and he also agrees.
And we had a suggestion:
Maybe the card should give you this additional hand size until the end of your opponents turn. So you at least could benefit from it by having additional hazards on hand.

marcos
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Re: Fair travel in free domains testing

Post by marcos » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:07 am

BoderHamster wrote:Also on Lure I finaly tried a Gondor deck with Fair Trvel in Free domains -V-.

Here my comment:
I believe this would be a card that wouldn't do the cut in most cases for the deck.

It is not only difficult to benifit from the card, even in a Gondor deck, but also if you manage to play it for a total of 3 regions, in most cases you get a maximum of 3 cards out of it.

Because you can only play it on a moving company. So if you had 8 cards in hand, played at best one other recource in the Org. phase and then play Fair travels on the moving company, then you have 6 on hand. you maximum hand then is elevenen. But as you travel you will draw at least 1 maybe even 2 cards. So if you draw two cards which is likely, then you draw 3 cards for fair travel.
But IK believe this is too less for a card that is that limited playable, because even in a gondor deck you cannot play it at all times. Most times only for 2 cards additional....
And you also have to discard most of those extra cards at end of turn.

I talked with Eric on the Lure and he also agrees.
And we had a suggestion:
Maybe the card should give you this additional hand size until the end of your opponents turn. So you at least could benefit from it by having additional hazards on hand.
i said from the begginig that i didn't like this card. Dunno why Joe decided to keep it...

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:26 pm

Maybe if we want to push Gondor decks a little.... we should rather instead virtualize "Sentinels of Numenor"...
I don't have any greath idear, but i latly tried to play that card and failed tremendously over it. Although it is a nice idear from the card itself... with all the malis you get on the factions it becomes slightly bad.

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:30 pm

There is another post on Fair Travels somewhere. The advantage of FT is not so much the card draw (though drawing 2-3 extra cards with a short-event in a hero deck seems like a great thing to me...), it is supposed to be the increase in hand-size until the end of your turn. On the surface this may seem limited, but that's because the increase is supposed to function for one thing only: help you set up those crazy site phase combos that rely on holding so many cards in hand (Paths, King Under Mountain, etc.) Just like Black Horse. Doesn't anyone find this useful?

Still, there was another post somewhere about a different version of Fair Travels that would make it harder for Lost in Free Domains, etc.... what was the discussion on that?

Frodo

marcos
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Post by marcos » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:44 pm

i think it is usefull but very specific

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:31 am

I tried to bulit a deck where it would be useful...
but I failed and removed the card from the deck after playing the deck trice!
because it played better without those cards, because i could inclued much better cards!!!
because the problem is that you might have ten or even if you are lucky eleven cards in hand until end of turn, but the only effect it does mainly is drawing 1 or 2 additional cards for you...!!!

because when you beginn you have 8 on hand.
then you play the card and move! so you are back to 7! let's just say you move 3 free domains, what is the maximum you can get.
so you get a handsize of 11. And draw probalbly 2 cards from moving company. so you are at 9 again. So at end of movement you draw 2 cards additional!!!

Even if you have another company that moves, this doesn't make any difference!

I believe we should find another gametext for the card...
or maybe just an additional alternative effect???

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:17 pm

Like I said (ages ago) this card is pretty useless, increase in handsize only helps if it's multiple turns because combos depend on cards being collected over a period of some turns, usually. So this only works for the extra draw, but still it's limited because of path and companies and it costs a valuable slot, who would add a card to draw two cards? I hate Dark Tryst for the same reason, people play it because it can be played at any time without requirement so the speed advantage is huge (and creates an unbalance between minion/fw and hero, though indeed these draw more from sites, but that only means you are almost obliged to include Tryst which is a waste for game play), if you'd had to play it during m/h phase its use would decrease alot.

uhm, sorry for the long analisis, in sum: for FTiFD the cancel LiFD ability is much nicer I think.

Marcos: you've been quite busy designing the V cards on gccg :D , they look nice. There are quite a few I'd never read before though :wink:
Geez, when do I ever get the time to test these? and Nico's dreamcards...
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Vastor Peredhil
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Post by Vastor Peredhil » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:25 pm

Thx for the flowers ;)

Marcos is way fast on VC set 3 and I haven't even been able to play anything great from VC set 2 ;(

anyway keep it coming Marcos

mfg Nicolai

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:05 pm

You're welcome, and beware because I'm adding my fair share of dreamcards too, since I didn't have ability to enter gccg yesterday I just decided to design some cards for fun, I'll post them at meccg.net. So, we're destined to do the designing, and leave the testing to others...

I still don't know why I can't enter, nor does wigy, so I might have to reinstall after all, bummer.

I'm guessing you're saving up my mails for one big reply?
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Post by marcos » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:09 pm

thanks guys.

@ Thorsten, all cards in VC3 were taken from suggestion in the forums. Though some of them might have been modified a bit or changed the name, i agree that there are too many suggestions that it is hard to keep track of all of them and some of them i didn't knew before making the set and reading through all the suggestion in the forum, as well as you Eric hehe :P

@ Vastor: i'll gladly keep them coming, so all you guys need to keep coming the V-suggestions ;)

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:57 pm

is there some kind of spoiler for V2 or V3???

marcos
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Post by marcos » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:21 pm

BoderHamster wrote:is there some kind of spoiler for V2 or V3???
not yet, but will work on that

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Post by marcos » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:00 pm

spoilers of sets number 2 and 3 can be found here

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:26 am

Okay, I found the old post of the topic of LOST IN FREE DOMAINS.
First, there were two people besides me who thought it was fine. Jambo used it and liked it, and B-Took wrote, “I see no need to modify Fair Travels; I just played a Fallen Gandalf game vs Frodo and the only thing that could have stopped me was Lost in Free-Domains, while the large hand size from the current version was impressive. Well worth including in any Gondor deck IMO.”

Nevertheless, I would prefer to make at least the majority of us happy. Let’s review the two outstanding suggestions:

1) Marcos’s Fair Travels in Free-domains
Short-event
Playable on a company at the end of the organization phase. If the company had at least one Free-domain in its site path, you may tap a diplomat character to cancel the effects of one hazard that would prevent the company from doing anything during its site phase. [OR “to cancel any card with “Lost” in its title.”]

2) BODER’s:
Fair travel in Free-Domains (V)
Permanent event
As long as Fair travel in Free-Domains is tapped, your handsize is increased by one.
Whenever a company you control has a free domain in it's site path, tap this card. Cannot be duplicated by a player.

I actually think Boder’s version is a little too strong; since the effect lasts a full turn, as long as you are moving some company (even a 1-minder) through a free-domain, and that is the first company you pick to move, you will gain the hand increase and you will never suffer a drop in handsize. This makes it the easiest handsize mechanism in the game, save avatar abilities.
Part of me likes Marcos’s card’s potential ability to stop Rivers, but if you think about, there’s not a great deal you can do vs. Gondor decks if you don’t have the right creatures, so having a resource that stops the King SB hazard AND the ubiquitous river is probably too much. But I also wish the card did something else…

Would it be too much to also add something of the old handsize increase, so the card would look like:
Playable on a company at the end of the organization phase. If the company had at least one Free-domain in its site path, for each diplomat you tap you may: cancel any hazard with “Lost” in its title OR increase your handsize by 1 until the end of the turn (max +3).

This makes it a more unusual, but also a more efficient, resource. I don’t think it’s too strong in its efficiency, because tapping a character, especially a Diplomat who may be likely needed to influence factions in Gondor anyway, is a big price to pay. But it also means you will get some little benefit even if the protection benefit is lost. Finally, perhaps we will agree that thematically, moving through multiple free-domains shouldn’t make your life that much better (as in the old, current Fair Travels version), but the idea of multiple Diplomats “conversing” or doing diplomatic duties in the free-domain that result in an increase in knowledge or politics makes sense. What do we think? Also, should the handsize increase be until the end of the turn, or until the end of the site phase to mirror Black Horse (V)? If until the end of the turn, what does that mean anyway… do you get to carry over the handsize increase until your opponent’s next m/h phase, or no? It’s kind of confusing to think about.

There was also this discussion about the difference between 'hold 1 more card in hand than normal', and handsize increase. Thorsten said, “I think holding extra card is better, at least you don't get the super draw on extra cards.” I actually didn’t think there was any difference between the two terms; since handsize is only resolved at the end of certain phases, I assumed the “handsize increase” would trigger then only. In fact, I‘m pretty sure of this. Thorsten, are you certain of this difference?

--Frodo

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:20 am

Maybe if mine is too strong.... add an additonal condition to the card...
because I realy like the idear....
(Either make it Uniqu (so it is less likely to draw it.... but i don't think that is a good idear, because it just adds a stupid drawing lucky effect on the power of your deck...)

maybe make having a moving diplomat as an additoinal requirement....
and maybe this diplomat does hav to make a corruption check???

I think frodos version could also be considered, BUT you definitly would have to remove the tapping clause...because that would just be stuip.... because it would make the CARD SO DAMN BAD, that only the first effect would ever be worthwile... and the second never used.... (who taps two chars for drawing 2 cards??? I cannot find any good in that.... then we have it weaker than before)
Maybe mak tapping only relevant for the first ability!

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