Final Fixes and Tweaks for Virtual Set #1

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Frodo
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Final Fixes and Tweaks for Virtual Set #1

Post by Frodo » Wed May 13, 2009 9:11 pm

Hey guys,

I'd like to finalize Virtual Set #1 and release it as "official" before this year's Worlds. That means there will probably be no more pdfs or (at least significant) changes, and we'll even give it a name!

So I looked over the set and found a few issues I'd like to talk about:

WORDS OF POWER AND TERROR
Let’s change:
“In addition, the Nazgûl attack may be keyed to Weathertop, Minas
Tirith or a non-Haven site with Eye of Sauron.”
To
“In addition, the Nazgûl attack may be keyed to Weathertop, Minas
Tirith, or a non-hero haven site with Eye of Sauron.

This allows the targeting of FW havens such as the abused Ettenmoors and also Isengard (though Isengard is a bit trickier because you need to hit them with the right racial strike first. Ettenmoors, conveniently, has a Troll auto already). It scarcely seems overpowered since they can heal there next turn anyway!

Also, “Strikes without body gain six body…” is worded better.

How do we feel about this?

EYE OF SAURON
Rules question: since Hall of Fire happens at end of m/h, does it even affect Eye?

Frodo

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed May 13, 2009 9:22 pm

i think eye of sauron does affect hall of fire, the sentence about cancelling hall of fire is clear enough, at least to me... About the changes on word of power and terror, i'm not too convinced about it, but i wouldnt mind changing it

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Wed May 13, 2009 11:45 pm

My question about Hall of Fire was worded incorrectly--right, EOS does affect Hall of Fire.

I guess I was wondering whether we thought, instead of merely suspending Hall of Fire, Eye of Sauron should actually CANCEL it. Unless the opponent M-tolds EOS before it went off, this would guarantee EOS having some effect on a Hall of Fired haven before the opponent inevitably Marvels Tolds it.

Frodo

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Thu May 14, 2009 2:39 pm

Some expansionname suggestions:

"Unfinished Tales"

"Sent back by the Valar"

"Return from the Undying Lands"

"Tales Untold"

"Stars of High Hope"

marcos
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Post by marcos » Thu May 14, 2009 2:48 pm

BoderHamster wrote:Some expansionname suggestions:

"Unfinished Tales"

"Sent back by the Valar"

"Return from the Undying Lands"

"Tales Untold"

"Stars of High Hope"
there was already a discussion about the set's name

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Thu May 14, 2009 3:42 pm

i cannot find the thread with the search engine... doesn anybode still remember what the threadname was?

marcos
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Post by marcos » Thu May 14, 2009 4:16 pm

this is the one you are looking for:

http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... .php?t=910

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Thu May 14, 2009 9:37 pm

"The Road Goes Ever On" is the chosen title for Virtual Set #1!!

After some last-minute discussions, we should be able to finalize this set for Worlds. I'd also like it to be clear to people that there's a distinction between this first virtual set, which has been playtested for more than 4 years (!), and later virtual sets, which are more "open ground" playtesting. Hopefully the name will do this.

Other opinions on the card issues I've raised?

--joe

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Fri May 15, 2009 4:32 am

I vote for cutting fair travels in free domains!!!

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri May 15, 2009 10:49 pm

Regarding Eye of Sauron:

No, it should not discard Hall of Fire. Hall of Fire has its uses in non-cheezy play; if nothing else for the supporting sages. Canceling the effect is strong enough.

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Sat May 16, 2009 3:51 am

Okay, agreed on Hall.

I'm also going to use the change on Words and Power, unless anyone wants to argue more on this. I will present an example to illustrate two of its now possible effects.

A) Opponent squats Troll-chief at Ettenmoors haven
*I play TNAA (V), stacking Words of Power (V). I sideboard in or draw up an Eye of Sauron (V), and hold onto a Nazgul. Finally, I play Eye of Sauron on Ettenmoors, wait and see if he cancels it (he doesn't), then Words of Power on the Troll auto at Ettenmoors, then a single Nazgul attack at the Ettenmoors which cannot be cancelled. If the Chief doesn't die, he will heal next turn.

B) Opponent squats at Isengard Haven
*I play TNAA (V), stacking Words of Power (V). I sideboard in or draw up an Eye of Sauron (V), and I also sideboard in or draw up one of those Lidless eye Man hazards that hits sites in Gap of Isen. I also hold onto a Nazgul. Finally, I play Eye of Sauron on Isengard wait and see if he cancels it (he doesn't), then the Man hazard (which gets cancelled by haven text), then Words of Power on the man hazard before its cancelled, then a single Nazgul attack at the Isengard which cannot be cancelled. If the character doesn't die, he will heal next turn.

As you can see, the Isengard option requires a hell of hand (one more SBed card that Ettenmoors attack), but I also see Isengard as less cheesy then Ettenmoors.

Frodo



Btw, Marcos, there were some changes to the V-cards (Set 1) since Worlds that are on the XML but not on the images themselves. For example, Tower Raided image still shows a strike bonus against spiders. Or maybe it's just MY Set 1 of images, and I need you to email me yours?

As I think of other examples I will post them to this thread.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sat May 16, 2009 8:39 am

nice examples and nice plays, this Words of Power addition is really cool, I'm so glad you came up with that idea Frodo. The combo does require 3 hl for Isengard, so he'd better not be squatting alone there. And it shows, Eye of Sauron should go straight in deck anyway :wink:

I didn't speak of the other stuff, because I agree on all, or it's been said before (FTiFD should go).
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Post by marcos » Sat May 16, 2009 12:15 pm

Frodo wrote:Okay, agreed on Hall.

I'm also going to use the change on Words and Power, unless anyone wants to argue more on this. I will present an example to illustrate two of its now possible effects.

A) Opponent squats Troll-chief at Ettenmoors haven
*I play TNAA (V), stacking Words of Power (V). I sideboard in or draw up an Eye of Sauron (V), and hold onto a Nazgul. Finally, I play Eye of Sauron on Ettenmoors, wait and see if he cancels it (he doesn't), then Words of Power on the Troll auto at Ettenmoors, then a single Nazgul attack at the Ettenmoors which cannot be cancelled. If the Chief doesn't die, he will heal next turn.

B) Opponent squats at Isengard Haven
*I play TNAA (V), stacking Words of Power (V). I sideboard in or draw up an Eye of Sauron (V), and I also sideboard in or draw up one of those Lidless eye Man hazards that hits sites in Gap of Isen. I also hold onto a Nazgul. Finally, I play Eye of Sauron on Isengard wait and see if he cancels it (he doesn't), then the Man hazard (which gets cancelled by haven text), then Words of Power on the man hazard before its cancelled, then a single Nazgul attack at the Isengard which cannot be cancelled. If the character doesn't die, he will heal next turn.

As you can see, the Isengard option requires a hell of hand (one more SBed card that Ettenmoors attack), but I also see Isengard as less cheesy then Ettenmoors.

Frodo



Btw, Marcos, there were some changes to the V-cards (Set 1) since Worlds that are on the XML but not on the images themselves. For example, Tower Raided image still shows a strike bonus against spiders. Or maybe it's just MY Set 1 of images, and I need you to email me yours?

As I think of other examples I will post them to this thread.
i'll send you all my stuff ASAP

Frodo
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Location: NYC, NY

Post by Frodo » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:05 am

So I'm going through all the cards from Set 1, trying to find anything that we missed or needs to be added, in preparation for Worlds. I'm giving us the deadline of Friday June 15th to have absolutely everything done with Set #1--the arguments, the card changes, the PDF and Word doc, and any new "booster art". Then, I'll post the PDF and a note to the community that it's finished.

My last issue with this publication concerns the "officialness" of the set. Ideally, I'd like to finally say that the set is "done"--which means, in theory, that the set will not have any more text updates to the pdf, so people can print just one final version of it. It would also mean that councils might feel more willing to give Set #1 more support (whether through Virtual tournies, or even allowing VSet 1 in their standard general opponent tournies.) In practice, if minute things come up, we would issue them as clarifications or Erratta, and if enough of them came up, we could redo the PDF. But part of me feels like what B_took was lamenting... I feel like we need to talk more about certain cards, like Dwar Unleashed, or maybe other stuff that got lost in the shuffle, and it's too soon to say the set is "official."

But, hey, it's been over three years!! Surely we can spend the next 7 days finding any last tidbits to talk about, then call this one a wrap? Thoughts?

Last item on this issue: Booster art. I think it would be cool to make a montage of images related to our set title "The Road Goes Ever On." Ideally, it would have some images from VSet1, but they don't have to only be from that set, or even from Middle-earth CCG cards at all. Any suggestions so I can get cracking on this?

Finally, please add replies to this post on any cards that you think still could use some quick talking-about.

Frodo

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:06 am

Okay, so this thread is on Fate of the Ithil-Stone (V).

I love this card. But I hate how it doesn't make the playing of the Ithil-stone item any easier, which I think it should, given the title of this card!

So, would it be to much to add to this card a second line:
"+5 to your scout’s roll on The Ithil-Stone."

?

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