Re Open to the summons

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marcos
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i can't really remember, but i think that the smallest lettersize i used was 9 or 10 for "they ride togheter"...
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Actually I did The Great Goblin at 5 I think, it is hardly acceptable and I don't know how it looks on print, but if you consider this to be the smallest size you have about 650 spaces for your text. There are many virtuals with text that hardly fit though (half an eye, corsairs, radagast, terror). Maybe something to think about?
anyway I just tried to fit it in and doesn't fit by far :cry:
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Jambo
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Regarding Open to the Summons, I don't really know what to do. I kind of like it the way it is to be honest, but I agree that by itself it doesn't really offer all that much that's different, other than an opportunity to recruit Man actions and to protect one's companies against Baduila as an agent.

I believe Grimburgoth would be a bad idea. I can only see him being used to grant a Balrog player 3 more cancellers (Tormented Earth), and the Balrog is tough enough without being given access to Tormented Earth.

If we want to see something different for the Balrog, then if anything, we want to be encouraging a Balrog player to use the Balrog differently. Right now everyone and their dog is using the Balrog with Great Shadow - raising Orcs of Moria, Stinker and acquiring the Black Axe.
marcos
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or flame of udun + descent through fire/ lord and usurper... I think strangling coils is the demon fana card that is less used and maybe we can work with that... I also like open to the summons the way it is
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Yeah but guys, let's face it, a diplomat or covert Balrog is kind of weird, even if it's just for his squint-eyed minions...
Thus I think we should throw in full weight on attack strategies. Balrogs should not be allowed to squat, I always hated the fact that they have power yet are lured into not using it.

And I like the avatarless balrog strategy idea, it is something that is needed, if only as backup if opponent scores him first (though you are by no means doomed if he does).
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marcos
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what about adding to open to the summons:
If opponent has revealed his avatar and you don't control the Balrog, for each man faction you have in play put a counter on Baduila, he receives +1 prowess, + 1 direct influence, -1 mind for each counter on him. Additionally, Baduila can tap to bring a resource or character from sideboard to play deck (shuffle)
Also, i'd remove the +1 body from the original version.

This addition might encourage attack strategies as Baduila is growing stronger and help the avatarless optioin too

thoughts?
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Thorsten the Traveller
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idea not bad, kind of what Frodo suggested, except you can gather some army of Southrons/Corsairs/Variags/Nurniags of course (making Baduila like 12 prowess)....and it means limiting avatarless Balrog to Baduila only, which I think is a missed opportunity, I'd like to see Buthrakaur rule...

but we needn't chance OttS though to make other strategies possible.

what about my proposition of tapping certain man faction to make weapons playable? Or tapping Baduila at man faction site to play weapon? Or tapping two orcs in Baduila's comp. to play weapon? If you make it non unique weapons, the bonus in mps would be limited, yet you are making war preparations...
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marcos
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Thorsten the Traveller wrote:idea not bad, kind of what Frodo suggested, except you can gather some army of Southrons/Corsairs/Variags/Nurniags of course (making Baduila like 12 prowess)....
yes, but that is not that much MPs rewarding...
Thorsten the Traveller wrote:and it means limiting avatarless Balrog to Baduila only, which I think is a missed opportunity, I'd like to see Buthrakaur rule...
switch the "put a counter on Baduila" ability to Baduila or a Balrog Specific leader?
Thorsten the Traveller wrote:what about my proposition of tapping certain man faction to make weapons playable? Or tapping Baduila at man faction site to play weapon? Or tapping two orcs in Baduila's comp. to play weapon? If you make it non unique weapons, the bonus in mps would be limited, yet you are making war preparations...
It might encourage the squat option... unless you limit it to 1 item per site
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Thorsten the Traveller
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yes limit 1 per site perhaps, or tap faction to play as many as you have that turn and not untap faction next turn. But otherwise, 1 mp per turn at a border isnt worth it either to squat there with your leader, if it's just with a nobody then yes, but it's far more worth it playing Hillmen/Dunlendings/Woodmen and then a weapon as bonus.
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marcos
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what about virtual usrievs? worth 3 MPs if stored?
Btw, nice that you pointed "weapon" items, so the best minion items (high helm, sable shield) are not playable this way ;)

I think that a free item after a faction is an easy way to get huge amounts of MPs on a single turn with only 1 company:
Dunlendings/ Hillmen + item = 5 MPs
Woodmen/ Men of dorwinion/ beornings = 4 MPs

what if we make a sort of Armory with this... play a battlegear minor item (helm, shield, weapon, armor) from sb/ discard after a man faction is played? make it worth 1 or 2 MPs when X items are played?
marcos
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marcos wrote:what if we make a sort of Armory with this... play a battlegear minor item (helm, shield, weapon, armor) from sb/ discard after a man faction is played? make it worth 1 or 2 MPs when X items are played?
Thinking about this twice, i think it is not a good idea, there's only 1 minion minor weapon and only 1 shield... back to the drawboard...
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Thorsten the Traveller
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hmm yeah Usriev V, it's no longer a hoard item, I forgot. Anyway, maybe it's my misunderstanding, but I took it that the 3 mp's would only be for your opponent if he stores it. Seems pretty cheezy to me if not. On the other hand, this would be cool way for Baduila to start forging Usrievs and hunt opponent to transfer them :wink:

you think the extra mp would be too much, even if you need to have two guys untapped for it? hmm ok, back to drawing board.

You could tap faction during org phase to play item, that way it's less sure you remain untapped next turn, thus less sure you make 5 mps that turn at all. And you can use weapon to start attacking right away :wink:
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marcos
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hmm yeah Usriev V, it's no longer a hoard item, I forgot. Anyway, maybe it's my misunderstanding, but I took it that the 3 mp's would only be for your opponent if he stores it. Seems pretty cheezy to me if not.
yup, you got the 3 points too if you store it
On the other hand, this would be cool way for Baduila to start forging Usrievs and hunt opponent to transfer them
yep, indeed hehe
you think the extra mp would be too much, even if you need to have two guys untapped for it? hmm ok, back to drawing board.
not sure until it gets tested...

new suggestions:

Open to the summons V:
+1 mind
Permanent Event
Balrog Specific. Playable only at the start of a game in lieu of a minor item. You may play Baduila in your starting company. Place this card with Baduila. If this card is in your pool, you may include Men factions in your deck. Such factions can only be influenced by a character at Baduila’s company. If opponent has revealed his avatar and you don't control The Balrog, for each man faction you have in play put a token on Baduila or a Balrog Specific Leader, that character receives +1 prowess, + 1 direct influence, -1 mind for each token on him. Additionally, that character can tap to bring a resource or character from sideboard to play deck (shuffle).

Swag V:
Short Event or Permanent Event
Balrog Specific. Playable only if Open to the Summons (V) is in play. As a short event, an item (even a trophy) can be transferred to another character in the same company and no corruption check is needed. Cannot be played during a strike sequence.
As a permanent event, once during each of your organization phases, you may tap a character to put a non-unique minor or major weapon/shield/helmet/armor item from sb under this card. These items are only playable in addition to a men faction that has been successfully played this turn and only one item per site (even if the site is already tapped and the item is not normally playable there). Cannot be duplicated by a given player.

thoughts?

EDITED (modificated acording to Thorsten comments)
Last edited by marcos on Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Yes good choice for Swag! (like Spanish title better: Botín)
but, why at darkhaven, and why any faction? I thought purpose was to play them with the men factions. Doesn't seem like swag to me if you play item from Orcs of Moria :? And, you could play as many as you like? o boy!

Sure the 3 mp's for yourself for stored Usriev are intentional? doesn't seem right to me.
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marcos
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Yes good choice for Swag! (like Spanish title better: Botín)
but, why at darkhaven, and why any faction? I thought purpose was to play them with the men factions. And, you could play as many as you like? o boy!
My intention here was with men factions of course and one per site, i had to word it better. The darkhaven restriction can be removed, no problem...
Sure the 3 mp's for yourself for stored Usriev are intentional? doesn't seem right to me.
no idea here

edited swag's suggestion according to thorsten's comments
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