Shadowfax

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Jambo
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Shadowfax

Post by Jambo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:45 am

Regarding Shadowfax, Agus made this comment in the feedback thread:
Balin wrote:Shadowfax is cool, but hard to play. First you must be Gandalf , second you rather sideboard Shadowfax after Gandalf enters play, finally Gandalf must be untapped at a site in Edoras. And then you score a ranger ally (which is cool, of course) for 1 MP only... Do you guys think we could virtualise a 2 MPs Shadowfax?
I was thinking about a cool way to speed up access to Shadowfax while retaining the Gandalf flavour:
Shadowfax wrote:Unique. Playable at any tapped or untapped non-Haven site in Rohan. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. If your Wizard is not in play, Gandalf may be brought into play at the same site as Shadowfax (place Shadowfax with Gandalf). This does not count against the one character per turn limit and may not be used to play a different Wizard.
Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn met Gandalf at Fangorn with Shadowfax. At the same time, this doesn't prohibit other wizards or characters from using Shadowfax.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:43 pm

Yep, like it, was thinking of something like it myself actually, because Shadowfax (like Lego) was a little pale. I had thought to do it the other way around, looking for Shadowfax if you have Gandalf (Gandi does his whistle and Fax arrives), but maybe this is a cool use too, if you've sacrificed him you can retrieve him.
I suppose by 'may not be used to play a different wizard,' you mean: 'you may not play Gandalf if you have already revealed a different wizard at any time during the game.' Otherwise people might take it that you can't play a different wizard with Shadowfax, which is inherent in the fetch Gandalf ability, yet you can sacrifice or have another guy killed and then fetch Gandalf...
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Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:53 pm

Hm, that's an idea. As well as what I've written there could be a clause for Gandalf being in play before Shadowfax (which is more likely)? For instance Gandalf could play Shadowfax at any site?

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:07 pm

I was thinking Ruins only, would be too good just to have Gandi play him everywhere, especially FW Gandi. Fax came to the aid of Gandalf, would be less need if he could grab any horse at border/free, and Fax wouldn't get through a shadow/dark. You're more likely to play Gandalf first, obviously.
But, since Fax returned to Gandalf after he died, the other way round is also nice, and bit more specialist.
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Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:47 pm

Shadowfax wrote:Unique. Playable at any tapped or untapped non-Haven site in Rohan. Gandalf may play Shadowfax at any tapped or untapped Border-hold or Ruins & Lairs. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. If your Wizard is not in play, you may bring Gandalf into play at the same site as Shadowfax (place Shadowfax with Gandalf). This does not count against the one character per turn limit.

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Post by Balin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 am

You are giving us cool ideas, Jambo, though I'd like to keep Shadowfax's ranger ability and its playability by Gandalf only. For instance:

Ranger Ally. Unique.

Playable only by Gandalf at any tapped or untapped non-Haven site in Rohan or at any tapped or untapped Border-hold or Ruins & Lairs. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your sideboard or discard pile into your play deck and reshuffle during your organization phase.


Now you don't need to include Shadowfax right into deck, nor to sb it tapping Gandalf or playing smoke rings. Besides, if Gandalf is sacrificed you can take Shadowfax back into deck when he is revealed again.
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:49 am

Yes I also like to keep it Gandalf only, because otherwise the original would be rather dwarfed by this card. I do like the fetch Gandalf ability after Sacrifice better, but if it's Gandalf only he can't be in play after Sacrifice of course.
You have 3x Gandalf and 1x Fax so I see no problem to include it in the deck, so you don't have to get it from sideboard. On the other hand, why not let Gandi play Fax from discard, would that be too easy ally point? Gandalf still has to be played and tap to get from sideboard. After all, if you play it from deck it may be that Gandi doesn't benefit at all from his ranger skill during the game. So I'd propose: tap Gandalf at Ruins/Border or any non haven site in Rohan (even if tapped) to play Fax from discard pile.

If this is too strong, perhaps tap Gandi and at any non haven site in Rohan to play Fax from discard pile. If Gandalf bears Sacrifice, he may tap at any ruins/border in stead.
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Post by Jambo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:01 am

Aye looks good.

*disclaimer: none of my previous versions removed Ranger. ;)

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Post by Balin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:08 am

Ranger Ally. Unique.

Playable only by Gandalf at any tapped or untapped non-Haven site in Rohan. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your play deck or discard pile into your hand during your organization phase. Shuffle your play deck if searched.


Better? Too strong?
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:15 am

Well now he doesn't need to get it out of sideboard, which means saving you a turn (or an untap card). For fallen Gandi it could be very good indeed since he can come into play at Edoras. But okay...

I said at any ruins if Sacrifice is played on him, because I think it's a pitty the guy needs to stay around Rohan, and there are only 3 sites in Rohan, which you might have already used and discarded by then, one for sure since you played Fax there in the first place.
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Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:58 am

Ranger Ally. Unique.
Playable only by Gandalf at any tapped or untapped Ruins & Lairs or Border-hold. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your discard pile into your hand or sideboard into your play deck.


This no longer restricts Shadowfax to Rohan, although all non Free-hold sites in Rohan are Border-holds or Ruin & Lairs anyway. This should also make it a little harder for Fallen Gandalf.

If you include Shadowfax in play deck and you draw it first and have to discard or Gandalf is Sac of Formed with Shadowfax, then you can draw it straight to hand. If you have it in your sideboard then you can bring it to your play deck. Fair compromise?

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Post by Balin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:45 pm

Agree :D
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Post by Frodo » Sat May 17, 2008 4:27 am

I like the evolution of the card here, including Jambo's last simplified playability clause, but I really see no reason for allowing the card to be taken directly from sideboard into hand! Why is it such a hassle to include a copy in one's deck? If you're not confident you'll draw Gandalf, that's a price you'll have to pay.

I would say we should leave it as per Thorsten's original clause: "When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your play deck (reshuffle) or discard pile into your hand."

This still makes it a very good card indeed.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Sat May 17, 2008 8:32 am

yeah... think like frodo too.... this version seems good enough...

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sat May 17, 2008 9:03 am

As we discussed on GCCG, that's actually better than the current proposal. ;)

There's no sideboard to hand feature.

Frodo did, however, later point out that the current sideboard to play deck is a bit redundant. If it's very easy to recall from discard, you would really want Shadowfax to be in you play deck from the start, not in sideboard. So we could remove that.

Do people really think automatic draw from play deck is a good idea?

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