Council of Elrond

I really don't know why I didn't see this possibility before, but...

Is anyone really using Ent-draughts right now? It's a nice card, but wouldn't it make for a much more complete set if we removed this one for now and added the new Swag (V) instead?

If so, do we have a consensus on Swag's wording? 'Cause we really need to move fast now!

Frodo

jeah lets do that...
i don't think ent drought will be played like they current are....

I have no problem with swapping it, though I'd still prefer Ent-draught over Fair Sailing, since that is a boostcard to a deck that doesn't need boosting (while playing many Ents is a pain in the ***)

Swag V: Short Event or Permanent Event

As a short event, an item or trophy can be transferred to another character in the same company and no corruption check is needed. The item must normally be transferrable and new bearer must be able to bear it. Cannot be played during a strike sequence.
As a permanent event, playable if Open to the Summons (V) is in play. Once during each of your organization phases, you may tap a character to put a non-unique minor or major weapon/shield/helmet/armor item from your sideboard under this card. After the succesful play of a Man faction this turn you may tap a character at the site to play an item from Swag V as if from hand (even if the site is tapped and the item is not normally playable there). Cannot be duplicated by a given player.

edited slightly:
-removed the Balrog specific part, since OttS V is already Balrog specific. Also the short-event doesn't have to be Balrog specific I suppose. It can be good for FW's and big items/rings etc, but it's kind of a minion Pledge of Conduct, so I guess no problem there (though this is not played in response to CC, but cc's are easily induced anyway - we can make it org phase only?)

-added: character must be able to bear it, copied that from Pledge. A trophy is not an item, but I suppose the normal trophy rule still applies (only orc/trolls) even if we just broke it by making it transferrable...

-we can skip alot of fuss for the perm. if we just state that "an item may be played from Swag as minor item after the succesful play of a Man faction." that is elegant and easy, but it would eliminate the possibility of playing item from Swag and a minor item. btw. the earlier version didn't say if char had to tap to receive, I made it so, but that might be debatable.

-as it stands, you can also play it if opponent has OttS V in play. It might be a bit strange, but I thought that's actually nice.

Thorsten made a good point -- do hero coastal strategies really need the boost provided by Fair Sailing?

Frodo wrote:I really don't know why I didn't see this possibility before, but...

Is anyone really using Ent-draughts right now? It's a nice card, but wouldn't it make for a much more complete set if we removed this one for now and added the new Swag (V) instead?

If so, do we have a consensus on Swag's wording? 'Cause we really need to move fast now!

Frodo

i have no problem with that

I've been using Ent-draughts in my Gimli and Legolas deck, so I'd rather it didn't go.

I would like to see the impact of the new Open to the Summons and Swag's nice but can we say for sure it won't imbalance the Hog?

If I had to pick I would suggest Fair Sailing, simply because right now coastal decks are already very good....

I use them in my Arwen controlls Aragorn deck with great effect, I do not mind Fair Sailing, since I have't played against it yet.

well but I like most other cards, though

I played Fair Sailing, and to be honest, it can go. Coastal decks are good as it is and frankly it doesnt add too much to it. I rather use the space for a useful card.

maybe we should swap the other card with one of this minion minor iteams cards????

Okay guys, let’s scrap Fail Sailing. Your comments convince me that we need to open up a thread on that card and do what we do best: debate it’s text to death!! (But let’s save that for after Worlds, shall we?)

So Fair Sailing and I Know Much About You will be removed from Set 1.

I like Thorsten’s idea that Swag’s item is in lieu of the free minor item. Not only is it MUCH easier to word, but it’s kinda neat in a thematic sense, since those free minors are supposed to represent presents anyway.

Questions:
Maybe I shouldn’t be asking questions two days before my virtual card posting deadline (to get these up one month before Worlds!), but I can’t resist, so let’s make the comments fast:

1) Should Swag (V) be limited to play as a perm only if Open to the Summons (V) is out? I have seen minion decks that recruit western Man factions before, but to my knowledge they were not particularly broken; also, they were not that big in size either. Also, there are MANY man factions in the Southern Mordor area that no minion deck bothers to get. Swag (V) could nicely add to these new strats as well! Basically, I see no reason to do this unless we feel minion decks that get western man factions are already too strong AND are big enough in company size to benefit from this card. A Baduila deck would still benefit from this card since he goes to these faction sites anyway, plus Baduila can search for Swag! Thoughts?
2) Should Swag be playable in response to a corruption check? Typical uses might be tapping Ren, then playing Swag on a character to transfer an item to a character than already made his roll; also, playing Swag in response to Roving Eye or Echoes will probably neutralize the corruption check. Perhaps this isn’t that strong since you don’t always want the item on someone else, and also because we are not stopping ALL corruption checks, we are only stopping those from ITEMS (as opposed to Alone and Unadvised), which in my opinion are too hazardous anyway! It would be funny, and very thematic, to add: “If the original bearer is unwounded, wound him (no body check is required)” to represent the theft of the item.
New text so far:

Swag V: Short Event or Permanent Event
Quote:
As a short event, one item or trophy can be transferred to another character in the same company and no corruption check is needed. The item must normally be transferable and the new bearer must be able to bear it. Cannot be played during a strike sequence.
As a permanent event, playable if Open to the Summons (V) is in play. Once during your organization phase, you may tap a character to place a non-unique minor or major weapon/shield/helmet/armor item from your sideboard with this card. After the successful play of a Man faction you may play an item from this card instead of the free minor item. Cannot be duplicated by a given player.

--Frodo

1) If it's not Baduila specific, badbeards can also use it when playing Riders of Rohan. I don't think it's broken for minion, nor even for badbeards, though it might make it easier to squat for the latter which is not desirable. In fact, this is still strongest I suppose, like Jambo says, for Balrog, and that might be a little worrysome, we'll see. The idea for this card came from playing Baduila in avatarless Balrog (whether voluntary or not). I don't mind extending it to other decks making it generally useful, but my personal opinion: I like cards that add character.

2) Play in response to cc? sure, why not? Minions don't have a Pledge of Conduct. One could say it's not very minion like to hand over an item. But robbing it is. Wounding char sounds nice, but I don't think it will be used much then, and the short-event alter was invented to make some use of the having 3 copies in deck. Tap the guy, like he's searching his pants off for the item, thinking 'where did it go?'

1) i'm ok for it to be playable by any minion player, but not by a FW for the reasons that Thorsten pointed before, so i would suggest:

as a short event playable by a minion player bla bla bla...

2) agree with thorsten, wounding is too harsh, tapping is ok...

Okay, no FW players at all... I forgot that they can do the same thing with Man factions. That's not acceptable; we shouldn't take away what is often their only weakness (getting an item).

Can someone remind me of the reason to not have it transferable during a strike sequence? Note that it can still be transferred between strike sequences, right? But if it's just to avoid two characters getting a weapon prowess bonus, I think that's a cool use of the card, actually.

Also, I add that the One Ring can't be transferred in this way. Seems unlikely the bearer would let himself be so robbed without a fight.

New text:

Swag V: Short Event or Permanent Event
Quote:
As a short event, one item or trophy (except the One Ring) can be transferred to another character in the same company and no corruption check is needed. The item must normally be transferable and the new bearer must be able to bear it.
Also playable as a permanent-event by a minion player. Once during your organization phase, you may tap a character to place a non-unique minor or major weapon/shield/helmet/armor item from your sideboard with this card. After the successful play of a Man faction you may play an item from this card in lieu of a free minor item.
(Edited to remove strike sequence line)
Frodo

Is it at all possible that this version of Swag will make Come By Night Upon them redundant?

i think no, becuase if you play both, you can play multiple items on a single site plus a faction...