Black Arrow reduces prowess and strikes “of any one attack against bearer’s company.” May you use Black Arrow on an attack that says it is only against a character (in this case, Black Arrow’s bearer) such as Lucky Search, which says “scout must face a single-strike attack”? I think it boils down to whether an attack against a character is also considered an attack against his company. But it gets more complicated… looking at the creatures Assassin and Slayer, they were worded as “3 attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character…” . A strict reading of these creatures shows them to be just like Lucky Search in that they only attack a character, not a company and THEN a character. But surely, surely, you can play a Concealment to cancel an attack from an Assassin, even though Concealment only says “cancel an attack against the company,” as opposed to Dark Quarels, which says “cancels a Man attack”? Traitor is another hazard which says it creates an “attack against a character” as opposed to an attack against the company—so can you Conceal the Traitor’s attack?
Frodo
Attacks "against characters" not attacks "aga
- Konrad Klar
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Wording.Frodo wrote:A strict reading of these creatures shows them to be just like Lucky Search in that they only attack a character, not a company and THEN a character.
“3 attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character…”
is not the same as:
"3 attacks (of one strike each); attacker chooses defending characters."
In first case which strikes will be assigned to which characters are known a priori. And nothing may change this assignation.
In second no.
And this is all difference.
So it is not a inconsistency that Coancelment may be used against Slayer/Assassin.
Please note texts of Burglary or The Hunt.
Text of Burglaty says "If attempt fails, the characer must face all automatic-attacks alone".
Text of The Hunt says: "This creature immediately attacks Alatar as though he were a one-character company."
In that two cases inability of receiving support from other company members is worded explicitly.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
Konrad, thanks for replying so quickly!
I'm still confused by your response, however. Do you agree that Assassins and Slayers and Traitors do not create an attack against the "company," they create an attack against a "character"?
If so, then how can a Concealment cancel any of these attacks, since Concealment says "cancels an attack against the company"?
Also, were you saying that Black Arrow can still be used against Assassins, Slayers, and Traitor attacks, or no?
This could affect my deck at Nats in the next few days, so I appreciate your response!
--Frodo
I'm still confused by your response, however. Do you agree that Assassins and Slayers and Traitors do not create an attack against the "company," they create an attack against a "character"?
If so, then how can a Concealment cancel any of these attacks, since Concealment says "cancels an attack against the company"?
Also, were you saying that Black Arrow can still be used against Assassins, Slayers, and Traitor attacks, or no?
This could affect my deck at Nats in the next few days, so I appreciate your response!
--Frodo
- Konrad Klar
- Rules Wizard
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- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
- Location: Wałbrzych, Poland
"Do you agree that Assassins and Slayers and Traitors do not create an attack against the "company," they create an attack against a "character"? "
No. I disagree.
I think phrase:
“3 attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character…”
means:
3 attacks (of one strike each) against the company. Character facing a strike from all these attacks is choosen at resolution of the first attack.
“3 attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character…” is just more compact form.
Yes. Black Arrow may be used by character in company facing attack of Slayer/Assassin/Traitor/Lucky Search (by character facing strike, or other character).
No. I disagree.
I think phrase:
“3 attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character…”
means:
3 attacks (of one strike each) against the company. Character facing a strike from all these attacks is choosen at resolution of the first attack.
“3 attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character…” is just more compact form.
Yes. Black Arrow may be used by character in company facing attack of Slayer/Assassin/Traitor/Lucky Search (by character facing strike, or other character).
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
- Konrad Klar
- Rules Wizard
- Posts: 4484
- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
- Location: Wałbrzych, Poland
Nice to hear such things.
However I see some of my statements must be corrected. General sense remains the same - attacks "against character" are attacks against a company.
I wrote:
"Character facing a strike from all these attacks is choosen at resolution of the first attack."
It is very unprecise.
In case of Lucky Search, Lost Tome, Forgotten Scrolls no one chooses target of strike. It is already determined by text of the cards.
Noble Hound and other effects cannot change this assignation.
Target of strikes from Assassins/Slayers is choosen by players. By normal procedure except that only one character may be assigned to strike (regardles of number of strikes).
Noble Hound and other effects can affect this assignation, but once done this assignation remains unchanged for rest of attacks.
By the same logic defender can avoid strikes from all attacks by making all characters in company "unassignable" (using More Sense Than You, Ruse's 2nd effect etc.)
Sorry if my previous post made confusion (bigger than made by this one..).
However I see some of my statements must be corrected. General sense remains the same - attacks "against character" are attacks against a company.
I wrote:
"Character facing a strike from all these attacks is choosen at resolution of the first attack."
It is very unprecise.
In case of Lucky Search, Lost Tome, Forgotten Scrolls no one chooses target of strike. It is already determined by text of the cards.
Noble Hound and other effects cannot change this assignation.
Target of strikes from Assassins/Slayers is choosen by players. By normal procedure except that only one character may be assigned to strike (regardles of number of strikes).
Noble Hound and other effects can affect this assignation, but once done this assignation remains unchanged for rest of attacks.
By the same logic defender can avoid strikes from all attacks by making all characters in company "unassignable" (using More Sense Than You, Ruse's 2nd effect etc.)
Sorry if my previous post made confusion (bigger than made by this one..).
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.