Heart Grown Cold

[Mordakai]

Hello there, I played a game last night and some doubts arose when Heart Grown Cold was played:

- How does it affect to a Hero if it has Mischief in a Mean Way played on it? (more precisely, can I play Rangers if Ithilien (a hero faction) there?

- How does it affect to a Hero if Chambers in the Royal Court was played on it? (more precisely, can I play the White Tree if I have the Saplig stored there?

- Can I use Choice of Lúthien to grab from discard pile a hero faction playable at the site if it is now a minion version of the site?

- Can I use Choice of Lúthien to grab from discard pile a hero faction playable at the site if it is now a minion verision of the site but with Mischeaf played on it?

I think the real question here is: Is a Wizardhaven created by Chambers/Mischief affected by HGC? I think no, because they are no longer / but instead, but the original site cards are still in play, and if I switch them to the minion version, the stage cards are no longer targetting the original site cards (the hero version of the sites), so they should be discarded instead (althogh, as stage cards, could also target minion versions)??

Silimar threads:

http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... 16&t=1062&

http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... =16&t=405&

[Konrad Klar]

I think that effects of Heart Grown Cold and rule

• A Fallen-wizard’s non-overt companies must use hero sites for sites that are not
Ruins & Lairs.

affect a site cards, not sites.
Lossadan Cairn site card is always card, regardless of what is played on it. Type of site of Lossadan Cairn site may change.

Different approach (effects of Heart Grown Cold and the rule check for type of site) would mean that Hold Rebuilt and Repaired would be useless for FW player.
After playing it would turn minion into for which FW player must use hero version, that in turn cannot be targeted by minion resource like Hold Rebuilt and Repaired.

Regarding Choice of Lúthien and similar:
Resources playable at a site are considered playable at the site even if for some reasons they cannot be played at the site (e.g. because site is tapped, alignments do not match, other copy is in play). Choice of Lúthien checks only whether ally, item, faction is playable at Arwen's current site.

[Bandobras Took]

Lossadan Cairn site card is always card, regardless of what is played on it. Type of site of Lossadan Cairn site may change.

I agree with that.

Different approach (effects of Heart Grown Cold and the rule check for type of site) would mean that Hold Rebuilt and Repaired would be useless for FW player.
After playing it would turn minion into for which FW player must use hero version, that in turn cannot be targeted by minion resource like Hold Rebuilt and Repaired.

Double dealing solves that problem.

Regarding Choice of Lúthien and similar:
Resources playable at a site are considered playable at the site even if for some reasons they cannot be played at the site (e.g. because site is tapped, alignments do not match, other copy is in play). Choice of Lúthien checks only whether ally, item, faction is playable at Arwen's current site.

I also agree with this.

However, Heart Grown Cold was ruled on by the NetRep; the official answer is here. The topic was reopened for discussion on the NetRep board, but that is the latest official ruling. If a site is currently a Wizardhaven, Heart Grown Cold does not affect it.

(Side Note: MEWH lists Hero Havens and Minion Darkhavens in order to prevent overt companies from moving to them. Otherwise, an overt company could with impunity move to Minion Darkhaven Dol Guldur because it is not a Dark-Hold. Likewise, hero Lorien is not a Free-hold.)

[Mordakai]

If a site is currently a Wizardhaven, Heart Grown Cold does not affect it.

That's what I thought. However, another question: I have Drúadan Forest (hero verion) played and HGC comes into play. I change to minion version and after that i play Mischief. Can I play hero woses facion there?

(The question is useless with Chambers, as, unlike Mischief, it needs Hero version of the site to be played)

[Bandobras Took]

Wizardhavens count as a site of both alignment types for the play of resources.