Whole Villages Roused with certain sites

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Eyelid
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Whole Villages Roused with certain sites

Post by Eyelid » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:49 pm

Hello to all,

I was looking at Whole Villages Roused and I wanted to make sure how this card worked with certain sites.

Whole Villages Roused reads:
Playable on a hero Border-hold or Free-hold [F]. The site has the automatic-attacks indicated on the corresponding minion site card (detainment against hero companies) but with +2 prowess. Alternatively, playable on a minion Shadow-hold [S] or Dark-hold [D]. The site has the automatic-attacks indicated on the corresponding hero site card (detainment against overt companies) but with +2 prowess.


Let's consider the first part of this card.

Now, there are a few minion Border-holds and Free-holds (such as Pelargir, Minas Tirith, Thranduil's Halls, etc.) that have two automatic attacks, the second one being playable on an overt company only.

For the sake of illustration, here's the game text on the minion version of Thranduil's Halls:

Nearest Darkhaven: Dol Guldur Playable: Inromation, Items (minor, major, gold ring) Automatic-attacks (2): (1st) Elves-each character faces 1 strike with 9 prowess (detainment against covert company) (2nd) Elves-3 strikes with 10 prowess (against overt company only).


My question is: which card takes precedence? In other terms, does the (hero) company face all automatic attacks (which are detainment as indicated on Whole Villages Roused) regardless of what's printed on the minion site, or does the "overt company only" clause apply?

Thanks for your insights.
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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:03 am

Whole villages roused gives the automatic attacks indicated on the site card. The only change it makes to them is that they become detainment vs hero companies.

Thranduil's Halls will only have the 2nd automatic attack if the company entering it is overt. Whole Villages Roused does not change this aspect of the automatic attack in any way.

Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:42 am

Right, thanks for clarifying.

By the way, can Whole Villages Roused be played on guard?
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kufel
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Post by kufel » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:28 am

sure! best! ;)

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zirilan
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Post by zirilan » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:52 am

PLACING A CARD ON-GUARD [Revised Rule]

An often confusing point is when and if certain hazards can be revealed as on-guard cards. There are two cases when a face down card may be revealed, and, thusly, affect an opponent's company: 1) when the company announces it will face a site's automatic-attacks (before the automatic-attack is itself faced), and 2) when the company plays a card keyed to the site.

For case #1, it is essential to realize that if the site has no automatic-attacks (like all normally occuring Free-holds), you cannot reveal an on-guard card according to this criterium. Additionally, an event that modifies the prowess of a character may not be revealed--only hazards that modify an automatic-attack itself can be. A creature revealed as an on-guard card is not considered an automatic-attack--it is considered a hazard creature attack.
Removing or adding an automatic-attack is not modify an automatic-attack. You cannot create an automatic-attack with an on-guard card like Fell Winter, you have to play those while movement-hazard phase.

Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:16 am

I knew you couldn't play a creature on guard on a site that has no automatic attack, but I thought this didn't apply in this case.

So I guess it's impossible to surprise my opponent with this card then, as it must be played during the movement/hazard phase.

Thanks for your help.
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zirilan
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Post by zirilan » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:51 am

Most likely you cannot surprise him, but in the rulebook is not clarified, that removeing and adding automatic-attacks does not count as modifying. Therefor you have to check the CRF and NetRep digest for the exact wording and ruleing in this case. Some of those cards creating automatic-attacks have got errata, that says cannot be revealed on-guard, but some other cards still miss this errata in the errata-list.

Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:30 pm

Well, before submitting my question to the forum I did check the CRF as well as the old ICE and Council of Elrond Rulings and could find nothing on placing this card on guard.

OK, assuming I can't play Whole Villages Roused on guard, would the following work?

I play Whole Villages Roused during the movement/hazard phase on a Hero company moving to a Free-hold or Border-hold, and I also play Awaken Defenders on guard.

Awaken Defenders reads:
The number of strikes for each automatic-attack at a Free-hold [F] or Border-hold is doubled. Additionally, each detainment automatic-attack at a Free-hold [F] or Border-hold becomes a normal automatic-attack. Cannot be duplicated.


If the company decides to enter the site, would Awaken Defenders then trigger?

Let's say I have a company containing Aragorn II moving to Minas Tirith to play Return of the King.

The Minion version of Minas Tirith reads:

Nearest Darkhaven: Minas Morgul Playable: Information, Items (minor, major, gold ring) Automatic-attacks (2): (1st) Men-each character faces 1 strike with 9 prowess (detainment against covert company) (2nd) Dúnedain-4 strikes with 10 prowess (against overt company only).


He knows he'll be facing two attacks there (1 Man attack of 1 strike with 11 prowess and a Dúnedan attack with 4 strikes at 12 prowess due to the +2 prowess from Whole Villages Roused), but what he doesn't know is that these two attacks will become normal attacks of 2@11 and 8@12!

Will this work?
Last edited by Eyelid on Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:24 pm

That is certainly valid. :)

Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:10 pm

Terrific, thanks!
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kober
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Re: Whole Villages Roused with certain sites

Post by kober » Tue May 14, 2019 1:00 am

Can Whole Villages Roused be duplicated, and if yes, would the prowess modification be multiplied by the number of copies played?

Ditto for Nature's Revenge and Fear! Fire! Foes! - if duplicated, does each copy add an additional AA?

Also, how would the three cards work in the following scenario?

A hero company is moving to Dunnish Clan-hold. During M/H phase the following three hazards are played and resolve: Whole Villages Roused, FFF, and Nature's Revenge. Would there be three automatic-attacks (detainment Men at 9 prowess, detainment no-type 5x8, and Animals at 7) during the site phase?
Whole Villages Roused wrote:Playable on a hero Border‐hold [...] The site has the automatic‐attacks indicated on the corresponding minion site card (detainment against hero companies) but with +2 prowess [...]
Fear! Fire! Foes! wrote:Playable on a [...] Border‐hold. An extra auto‐attack is created this turn: 5 strikes with 8 prowess (detainment, no attack type) [...]
Nature's Revenge wrote:Playable on a site in a Wilderness that normally is a Border‐hold [...] All versions of the site become Ruins & Lairs and each gains an additional automatic attack: Animals ‐ each character faces 1 strike with 7 prowess [...]

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Theo
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Re: Whole Villages Roused with certain sites

Post by Theo » Tue May 14, 2019 2:34 am

Yes, those three events can be duplicated. However...

Whole Villages Roused sets the automatic attacks to those printed on the opposite alignment card. If duplicated, the second would overwrite the first (resulting in no change to the automatic attacks encountered).

In contrast, Nature's Revenge and Fear! Fire! Foes! add additional attacks. So each duplicate will indeed add an additional attack.

The scenario you gave, if the cards resolve in the order you gave, would have the result that you determined.
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