Thrall of the Voice - Where

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Theo
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Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by Theo » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:00 pm

I believe the character that Thrall of the Voice allows to be played instead of a normal character can be played at any site.

I know this is contentious. See this post, for instance.

Indeed, normally:
MELE p58 wrote:To play a character, you must have enough general influence or direct influence available to control the character. In addition, you must meet both of the following requirements:
* If the character is not an agent, you may only play him at his home site or at any Darkhaven site. If the character is an agent, you may only play him at his home site.
* If your Ringwraith is in play, your Ringwraith (or a character with enough direct influence to control the character to be played) must be at the site at which the character is to be played.
The restrictions are written in terms of being able to play the character. This means that "where" a character may be played is inherently tied to "which" character may be played, in contrast to my understanding of the sentiment in the above linked post.

However (underline mine):
CoE98 wrote:Why does TotV supersede the WH ruleset by allowing the play of Orcs and Trolls?
*** If it isn't there, it isn't there. Thrall of the Voice says to bring into play a character. An orc or a troll is a character. If it stated something to the effect of the play needing to be otherwise legal, then orcs and trolls could not be played with Thrall of the Voice without Bad Company in play.
CoE98 implies that Thrall of the Voice allows a character to be brought into play via its own mechanic. Thus, Thrall of the Voice is not beholden to the MELE restrictions of the "normal" play about which NOR where.

---

Aside: note that the writing of the above MELE restrictions does not follow the "when you play a character" language:
MELE p20 wrote:When you play a character, you may place him into a company already at his arrival site or he may become a new company (consisting of one character). In the second case, you must place the arrival site card next to the character played. If the appropriate site card is not available, you may not play the character.
Because this is triggered by (any) play of a character, the requirement that the appropriate site card is available thus still applies to Thrall of the Voice.
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Konrad Klar
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Re: Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by Konrad Klar » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:48 am

I agree.
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Re: Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by rezwits » Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 am

I agree?

To what?

When it comes to WHERE; the answer is WHERE you can "normally play a character" to get the INSTEAD

The normal rules apply for where.

Thrall says you can play an Agent, fine, "normally, play him at his home site, with your avatar", guess what? He can have a 6 mind.

If you don't have an Avatar in play, you can play the 6 mind agent, at his home site. There is NO COMPANY with Thrall it's just out there floating.

The only cards that SEEM to change WHERE you can play a character are A Chance Meeting (ACM), We Have Come to Kill (WhCtK), and Open to the Summons (OttS) (agents). They actually list sites ON THE CARDS...

Open to the Summons says you can play an Agent at your HAVEN.

I don't see, how, when a CARD ABSOLUTLY does NOT HAVE the TEXT/LANGUAGE on the card, it gets dragged thru the mud, and is like a novella.

My understanding is pretty clear.

Thrall of the Voice, DOES NOT HAVE, ACM/WhCTK language, nothing close.
Thrall of the Voice, DOES NOT HAVE, important OttS site specific Language.

Thrall of the Voice, is Thrall of the Voice, it's kind of bad (pun intended) that it got the Bad Company ruling, but that is understandable.

(side note, I read the CoEs #39, #50, #51, #63, #98, and it's just for starting characters and orcs...
I mean for crying out loud,
if you didn't have your Avatar in play,
you could just play a guy ANYWHERE!,
Thrall, Carn Dum, Character, GO! heh)

There's no restriciton of Where? heh wow Super A Chance We Have Come to Thrall!

You play the character where you Normally Play, it's just that the Character doesn't have to be normal, k night!

"You're reading into things" - Old Roomate I used to live with (name withheld) Smartest thing he ever said...
the cards are just getting shredded after 20 years of use, people want them to do more than FACE VALUE

[-me_wh-]-PM-ME-IF
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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Re: Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun May 19, 2019 8:26 am

Thrall of the Voice says:
"(including minion agent)"
"Such character may also be in your starting company."

Agent characters are not non-normal for FW player.
As long as they have mind up to 5 and are not Orcs, or Trolls, they may be played by FW player according to all restriction that other characters subject plus restrictions that they may be played only at their home sites and that they cannot be in starting company.

So if not "Such character may also be in your starting company.", then "(including minion agent)" would be meaningless.

I do not know any agent character that has as home site The White Towers or [-me_rl-] in Rhudaur or Arthedain.

So the combination "(including minion agent)" plus "Such character may also be in your starting company." either:

a) is meaningless,
b) supersedes agent characters restrictions concerning home site and starting company,
c) supersedes agent characters restriction concerning starting company, but does not supersede restriction concerning home site. As such is reserved for hypothetical agent characters that have as home site The White Towers or [-me_rl-] in Rhudaur or Arthedain, and/or for hypothetical starting locations outside The White Towers or [-me_rl-] in Rhudaur or Arthedain.
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Re: Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by rezwits » Sun May 19, 2019 8:37 pm

Ok here, let me play Devil's Advocate.

Where can a player play, their non-normal character?

At their Haven? Why? Why the restriction? They can play a non-normal character ANYWHERE they want it's non-normal right?

That's the reverse issue.
The question is you are saying that this is LIMITLESS, but then you state only at Haven or Home Site, why the limitation?

You seem to want to put a "minor" limitation on WHERE, but like I am saying, the WHERE is where things NORMALLY would be. With/without Avatar etc... You state that it says Agent, ok agent, but there is no mention of WHERE.

And then your respone would be "Because that's where you NORMALLY play characters", but then it goes back to your logic of, it's a NOT Normal Character. So the where is anywhere, and this just keep looping...

The only mention is:
Instead of a NORMAL CHARACTER. Period. (It's not instead of WHERE you play a character, the only alteration is of the character).

Mind 6 or less, Agent or not, Orc or Troll. I mean that's all the card is saying.

That's why all the arguments of Avatars, (i.e. Wizards/Ringwraiths) etc.

Mind 6 or less, Agent or not, Orc or Troll.

There is nothing there...
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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Re: Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon May 20, 2019 7:46 am

d) supersedes agent characters restrictions concerning home site and starting company only during draft

Otherwise does not supersede any rules concerning where character may be played.
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Re: Thrall of the Voice - Where

Post by rezwits » Mon May 20, 2019 2:53 pm

oh thank you Konrad.

I think we are seeing the [-me_eye-] to [-me_eye-] here :P
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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