Helm of her Secrecy

The place to ask all rules questions related to MECCG.
TomG
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 12:19 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: Helm of her Secrecy

Post by TomG »

I thought I would check the "Middle-Earth:The Dragons Player Guide" published in 1997 by I.C.E..
On p.45 in describing HohS, it expressly states: "Note that it can be duplicated against one attack." As this was the definitive guide on card playability by the very makers of MECCG, I am prepared to follow it. It makes no sense to put in print that it can be duplicated, yet Ewoyn cannot obtain the cumulative bonuses.
Attachments
16000130133701846826294394221408.jpg
16000130133701846826294394221408.jpg (2.44 MiB) Viewed 58 times

User avatar
CDavis7M
Posts: 1904
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

Re: Helm of her Secrecy

Post by CDavis7M »

Thank you for actually bothering to read, because most people can't be bothered. But this is the same information we have been discussing. This book was written by Craig Ichabod O'Brien, who is the same guy that wrote the ruling I quoted above, and the same guy that wrote to CRF. This is a restatement of his same wrong ruling -- it's not new information.

Helm of Her secrecy can technically be Duplicated because (A) it doesn't say Cannot Be Duplicated and (B) the conditions for playing Helm multiple times can be met.

The problem is that if you do this, Eowyn is not in play to receive her bonuses. Meaning that it was not a Legal Play. Neither of these issue were discussed by Ichabod.

It's also worth nothing that the rules on Legal Play of Cards came from the Tournament Rules, which were after The Dragons. So this ruling from before Legal Play of Cards was not considering the points I made above.

Unfortunately you can not solely rely on the Players Guides because the rules sometimes changed. Usually Ichabod and the Players Guide are correct, but not in this case.

Botton line: the Rules on Events don't allow Eowyn to receive the bonuses if she was not in play when Helm of Her Secrecy Resolves. And the rules on Legal Play of Cards don't allow you to play a card without an effect.

User avatar
CDavis7M
Posts: 1904
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

Re: Helm of her Secrecy

Post by CDavis7M »

TomG wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:04 pm
As this was the definitive guide on card playability by the very makers of MECCG, I am prepared to follow it. It makes no sense to put in print that it can be duplicated, yet Ewoyn cannot obtain the cumulative bonuses.
By the way, don't follow the ruling on More Sense Than You on pg 13. Because that's another wrong ruling not based on the rules. However, unlike Helm of Her Secrecy,that ruling was reconsidered and overturned.

User avatar
CDavis7M
Posts: 1904
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

Re: Helm of her Secrecy

Post by CDavis7M »

TomG wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:04 pm
As this was the definitive guide on card playability by the very makers of MECCG
Oh, and if you couldn't tell, The Dragons Players Guide is certainly not the "definitive guide". And it was not written by "the very makers of MECCG."

And definitely don't rely on the METW PG or the MELE PG either, because those also have wrong rulings.

Unfortunately players need to understand the rules and recognize the changes to the rules.

Think about it: If the Designers actually intended to allow playing multiple Helm of Her Secrecy cards, why would they require the player to declare these cards in the same chain of effects in response to each other? It makes no sense. No other card is designed to work this way and no other effects needs to work this way besides those that target dice-rolls, which have their own special timing rules.

If the player is going to rely on a rule as inconsequential as "you may follow one of your declared actions with another of your declared actions in the same chain of effects" then they surely should follow the fundamental rule of "the effects of a resource permanent-event are immediately implemented"

TomG
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 12:19 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: Helm of her Secrecy

Post by TomG »

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions”