Beginner questions

The place to ask and debate all rules issues related to MECCG.
DM_Eonwe
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Hello experienced Ringwraiths, Wizards, Balrogs. I am currently coming back to the game and I tried first time to go with MELE and MEAS after already having played METW together with METD and MEDM. I am currently building 4 decks of Ringwraiths and I encountered a question (most likely more will follow) and I couldn't find a clear answer in the rules documents.

Thanks a lot!

Collections of my questions from this thread:

I have played my Ringwraith character and thus they are my revealed Ringwraith (offenbarter Ringgeist in German) and I can use an Unleashed card on him. When I have more than one Ringwraith in play, can all of them use their Unleashed cards or is only the first one counting as your revealed Ringwraith? Only the first Ringwraith is your revealed Ringwraith. Other subsequently played Ringwraiths are Ringwraith followers and not your Ringwraith and thus cannot use their Unleashed card.

When I play Alatar the Hunter as a hazard creature and it is defeated, is it right that I also cannot play the wizard Alatar anymore? What happens when the hazard creature was not defeated? No, once a unique card is either in the Discard Pile or in the Point Area, you cannot play another.

Can I tap Lobelia to search for the One Ring? No, only items that are specifically played at the site can be found by Lobelia.
Last edited by DM_Eonwe on Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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CDavis7M
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All of these Ringwraith "Unleashed" cards having a playability condition of "(as your Ringwraith)" or "(if ____ is your Ringwraith)." It can only be played on "your Ringwraith." When the rules use the term "your Ringwraith" they are referring to the Ringwraith that you have "revealed" yourself as. Ringwraith followers are not described as "your Ringwraith" and instead they are described along with references to the revealed Ringwraith being "your Ringwraith."

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Another interpretation is that every revealed Ringwraith and any Ringwraith follower under their control is also under "your" control as the player. However, this cannot be what "your Ringwraith" is referring to because that is meaningless to the game. And it would imply that you lose the game if a RW follower is eliminated.
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Baba
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Location: If Oxford is Hobbiton (Tolkien's statmt in Letter294). Between river Adorn sources and Gap of Isen

In the french rulebook, it is said that the ringwraith you revealed is YOUR ringwraith, followers are named OTHER ringwraith or ringwraith follower.
So only one ringwraith can be your ringwraith.
Furthermore it is said in the rulebook that followers cannot use abilities except for Ûvatha... and all the unleashed card specifies if he is you ringwraith (that means if the one ringwraith you have chosen to reveal as yours)

For the french player that I am the answer is no you cannot use other uneashed cards for the followers...

Cannot take picture, sorry
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DM_Eonwe
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:31 pm

Okay, that clear everything up. Thanks a lot.

I have a new question where I am almost sure about the answer but I would like to confirm. When I play Alatar the Hunter as a hazard creature and it is defeated, is it right that I also cannot play the wizard Alatar anymore? What happens when the hazard creature was not defeated? I understand that once the wizard comes into play the hazard event will be discarded. My questions aims at the deck building question if it is a good idea to include Alatar the Hunter as a hazard when I also want to play him as my wizard. The same question is basically also valid for all manifestations including Nazgûls.
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Baba
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Location: If Oxford is Hobbiton (Tolkien's statmt in Letter294). Between river Adorn sources and Gap of Isen

Alatar the hunter as an hazard creature is a manifestation of Alatar.
1) Only one manifestation of a creature can be in play (except for the dragons)
2) If the attack of a manifestation is defeated (= the creature is killed), the manifestation is removed from the game so it's impossible to play an other manifestation of the same entity)
3) If you reaveal your ringwraith (as a minion player) the manifestation of the Nazgûl in play si discarded
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DM_Eonwe
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Thanks Baba. But if the creature is not killed/defeated I could play him again as Alatar the Wizard?
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Shapeshifter
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Yes, this is legal.
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CDavis7M
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DM_Eonwe wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:42 am I have a new question where I am almost sure about the answer but I would like to confirm. When I play Alatar the Hunter as a hazard creature and it is defeated, is it right that I also cannot play the wizard Alatar anymore? What happens when the hazard creature was not defeated? I understand that once the wizard comes into play the hazard event will be discarded. My questions aims at the deck building question if it is a good idea to include Alatar the Hunter as a hazard when I also want to play him as my wizard. The same question is basically also valid for all manifestations including Nazgûls.
DM_Eonwe wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:06 pm Thanks Baba. But if the creature is not killed/defeated I could play him again as Alatar the Wizard?
These questions all relate to the rules on Manifestations.

Image
DM_Eonwe wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:42 am When I play Alatar the Hunter as a hazard creature and it is defeated, is it right that I also cannot play the wizard Alatar anymore? What happens when the hazard creature was not defeated?
When a creature is defeated, it goes to a marshalling point pile or an out-of-play pile. If a creature is not defeated, it does to the discard pile. The rules on manifestations only apply to cards that are in play, in a marshalling point pile, or in an out-of-play pile. The rules on manifestations do not apply to any discard pile. So if Alatar the Hunter is defeated, then you cannot play Alatar anymore. If Alatar the Hunter is not defeated and goes to a discard pile, and no other manifestation of Alatar is in play, then wizard Alatar can be played.

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DM_Eonwe wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:42 am I understand that once the wizard comes into play the hazard event will be discarded.
There is no such rule for wizards. There is a similar rule for Ringwraiths/Nazgul in Lidless Eye that states: "you can play a Ringwraith card even if the corresponding manifestation Nazgul hazard permanent-event is already in play. In this case, the Nazgul hazard permanent-event is discarded."" This rule only applies to Nazgul permanent-events in play. It does not apply to Nazgul cards in a marshalling point pile which were defeated as a creature.

If there is a declared Fallen-wizard, the corresponding hazard could not be played at all as it is not "Fallen" when that Wizard is already declared to be Fallen.

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DM_Eonwe wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:42 am My questions aims at the deck building question if it is a good idea to include Alatar the Hunter as a hazard when I also want to play him as my wizard. The same question is basically also valid for all manifestations including Nazgûls.
A "good idea"? it depends on your deck. These cards could easily become a wasted draw considering that you will have 2-3 copies of your avatar and only 1 copy of the hazard.
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Konrad Klar
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Baba wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:15 am 1) Only one manifestation of a creature can be in play (except for the dragons)
2) If the attack of a manifestation is defeated (= the creature is killed), the manifestation is removed from the game so it's impossible to play an other manifestation of the same entity)
1. This applies to any manifestation. Not only manifestation of a creature.
2. The card is removed from play, not from game. Strider removed from game (not from play) is not obstacle for appearing in play Aragorn II (manifestation of Strider).
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Baba
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There is no such rule for wizards. There is a similar rule for Ringwraiths/Nazgul in Lidless Eye that states: "you can play a Ringwraith card even if the corresponding manifestation Nazgul hazard permanent-event is already in play. In this case, the Nazgul hazard permanent-event is discarded."" This rule only applies to Nazgul permanent-events in play. It does not apply to Nazgul cards in a marshalling point pile which were defeated as a creature.
As far as I can remember (but i have never played in tournament and i always play with french following french rule book) we have always extended the rules of ringwraith to the ringwraiths followers, that means :
I can reveal Dwar as my ringwraith if my opponent has it as a follower, the follower is discarded when mine comes into play. Can you confirm it or is it something that just exist in french lidless eye rulebook ?

CDavis7M where did you have the picture of the rule begining with 6 Unique, manifestations, cannot be duplicated ?

ThX
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Konrad Klar
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Ringwraith Followers

If the following conditions are met, you may bring another (different) Ringwraith character into play at your Ringwraith's site such a character is called a "Ringwraith follower."

Your Ringwraith is already in play.
Your Ringwraith is at a Darkhaven or he is at the Ringwraith follower's home site.
You have the card of the additional Ringwraith in your hand.
Your opponent does not have the Ringwraith already in play and the Ringwraith has not been eliminated.
You have the card or ability allowing a Ringwraith follower to be played (e.g., They Ride Together, The Witch-king's ability).
A Ringwraith follower must always be under the control of your Ringwraith and may move to non-Darkhaven sites with your Ringwraith. Your Ringwraith must use 1 point of direct influence to control each Ringwraith follower. Your Ringwraith followers may not be influenced away by your opponent.

A Ringwraith follower may not use any of its special abilities. Uvatha's ability to automatically join another Ringwraith's company is an exception to this.

When you reveal your Ringwraith, your opponent must discard any identical Ringwraith card that has been played as a Ringwraith follower.
Underline mine.
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CDavis7M
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Baba wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:21 pm I can reveal Dwar as my ringwraith if my opponent has it as a follower, the follower is discarded when mine comes into play. Can you confirm it or is it something that just exist in french lidless eye rulebook ?

CDavis7M where did you have the picture of the rule begining with 6 Unique, manifestations, cannot be duplicated ?
Konrad copied the rule on followers. P.58 in the English MELE.

The rules on Manifestations that I posted are from the Balrog (Challenge deck) rules. I just copied it because some of the rules are more updated in Balrog. Though some of the rules are also missing.
DM_Eonwe
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Thanks everyone for the answers and the explainations!

One more question that came up during deck building: Can I tap Lobelia to search for the One Ring? I don't know if something like the stack exists in Middle-earth CCG, but maybe I can use her ability directly after I tested a ring to be the One. Or maybe I need to be at a site where I can play Special Items.
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Konrad Klar
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Lobelia would need to be at a (hypothetical) site where The One Ring is playable.
Special item rings played in result of test are not considered played at a site, even if a character bearing tested ring is at the site.
And they are not considered playable at a site.
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DM_Eonwe
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Thanks @Konrad for your quick answer. Makes totally sense!
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