Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

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Konrad Klar
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Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Konrad Klar »

Against the Shadow: Ride Against the Enemy
Rarity: Common, Precise: C3

Hazard: Short-event

Playable on a company moving through a [-me_wi-] if you have a character in your hand. Reveal the character. A single-strike hazard creature attack is made with the attributes of the revealed character, except the prowess is increased by 7. Other cards have no effect on this attack. The attack is detainment if the revealed character and the company are both minion or both hero. If defeated, place the character in your opponent's Marshaling point pile-he receives the character's Marshaling points as kill points. Otherwise, discard the character.
Does the attack has a type?
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Theo
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Theo »

MELE wrote:Attribute: A characteristic of a character or attack: prowess, body, race, a character’s listed skills, direct influence, mind, marshalling points, special abilities.
The attack is with all the attributes of the revealed character, including race.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by CDavis7M »

Is the character's race the same as the cards keyword? No but I think it's enough as the card is not specifically asking for a keyword. The character might be of elf race and the attack is an attack. Is an elf-race attack different from an elf-keyword attack? Yes... but it is the same difference.

I was looking through the METW creatures recently and it seems clear enough to me that Wolves are a wolf attack because the title of the card is wolves. It was also an animal attack though it was changed to be double wolves. And Giants were already Giants from the title before they were Giants from the keyword. Many cards refer to the title rather than the keyword (Galadriel lacks the Galadriel keyword). And that's OK. At least, this is how I think the designers originally thought before they recognized the clarity and consistency of keywords.
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Konrad Klar »

But what is the problem?

That accidentally "A single-strike hazard creature attack [that] is made with the attributes of the revealed character, except the prowess is increased by 7." may have mind or DI?
Or that a race of character does not translate to type of attack?
I am suspecting that if Dark Quarrels (in CvCC) is able to cancel an attack of company containing only Men, Trolls, Orcs, then there is such translation.

P.S.
I asked the question from 1st post because I read definition Race in Glossary and I forgot to read definition of Attributes. :roll:

EDIT: "consisting" > "containing"
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dirhaval
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by dirhaval »

Thought I read somewhere that if you play the character,
and it's text reads you lose xMP if eliminated, then you the hazard player lose that MP.
Is that right?
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Konrad Klar »

Right.
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by CDavis7M »

dirhaval wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:49 am Thought I read somewhere that if you play the character,
and it's text reads you lose xMP if eliminated, then you the hazard player lose that MP.
Is that right?
Nope. There is a difference between a character being "eliminated" and an attack with attributes of a revealed character being "defeated" resulting in the character being placed in the opponent's MP pile. The rules tell you how characters can be eliminated (by corruption and body checks).

The effect "-2 marshalling points if eliminated," for example, counts when the character is eliminated as it states. It does not count when the character is in the opponent's MP pile, and not when an attack with the attributes of that character is defeated such that the character goes into the opponent's MP pile, etc. etc.

The character card can never end up eliminated by the effect of Ride Against the Enemy.
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Konrad Klar »

CDavis7M wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:39 am The rules tell you how characters can be eliminated (by corruption and body checks).
Good news for those who play The Ithil-stone.

As curiosity.
Lidles Eye wrote:1 · THE VICTORY CONDITIONS
The game ends when one of the following occurs during play:
1. If your Ringwraith is "eliminated" (i.e., through combat or corruption) - your opponent wins.
[...]
So character is placed in your opponent's Marshaling point pile, gives him kill MPs, but is not eliminated?
OK.
If a reason is omission of a word "eliminated" then also the character may be copy/manifestation of unique card already in play. The restriction that revealed character may not be copy/manifestation of unique card already in play is omitted too.
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by CDavis7M »

Konrad Klar wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:31 am
CDavis7M wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:39 am The rules tell you how characters can be eliminated (by corruption and body checks).
Good news for those who play The Ithil-stone.
Sure, a card can use the word "eliminate" and cause a card to be eliminated. But if a card does not use "eliminate" then nothing is eliminated.
Konrad Klar wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:31 am
Lidles Eye wrote:1 · THE VICTORY CONDITIONS
The game ends when one of the following occurs during play:
1. If your Ringwraith is "eliminated" (i.e., through combat or corruption) - your opponent wins.
[...]
So character is placed in your opponent's Marshaling point pile, gives him kill MPs, but is not eliminated?
OK.
If a reason is omission of a word "eliminated" then also the character may be copy/manifestation of unique card already in play. The restriction that revealed character may not be copy/manifestation of unique card already in play is omitted too.
I wonder why you say that. The rules state "If a card states that it is “unique” or that it “may not be duplicated,” only one such card (or its effects) may be in play at a time." Surely revealing a character card is different from playing a character card. But also, simply revealing a character card from hand is different from the effect of Ride Against the Enemy which not only causes the character card to be revealed but also creates an attack with its attributes and then moves the character card to the opponent's MP pile or to your discard pile. The character is being "played with" during the resolution of Ride Against the Enemy. The revealed character is briefly "in play" without being "played" from hand.

I don't see why the Unique rules would not apply. The Unique rules also apply to short-events which are also briefly in play as they resolve.
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Konrad Klar »

Strict blur.
Where one may conclude that copy/manifestation of unique card in play may not be revealed, and where other or the same one may conclude that after defeating attack with attributes based on attributes of character, the character card placed in MP pile gives kill MP but is not considered eliminated.

Other explanation: revealed copy/manifestation of unique card in play may not be placed in MP pile, regardless of result of facing of the attack created by Ride Against the Enemy.
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Re: Ride Against the Enemy (type of attack)

Post by Theo »

dirhaval wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:49 am Thought I read somewhere that if you play the character,
and it's text reads you lose xMP if eliminated, then you the hazard player lose that MP.
Is that right?
It depends on your framework. CoE Digest 105 said this. If your framework is to follow CoE rulings, it is right.

I agree with CDavis7M that this was an incorrect ruling for the reasons he gives.
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