My minion company, containing a ranger, is attacked by a cave-drake.
I do not have a Crept Along Cleverly in my hand, but I know there are several in my deck.
At this point, can I play a Dark Tryst to draw 3 cards and hope to get a Crept Along Cleverly , and then play it to cancel the attack?
Or is it already too late?
Dark Tryst and cancellers
- Konrad Klar
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Not too late.
There is a time for multiple chains of effects before strikes are assigned.
There is a time for multiple chains of effects before strikes are assigned.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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This does raise a question that I'm not clear on. Can you interrupt the resolution of a chain of events? You can't interrupt a card but consider the following:
Hazard player (HP): Play Cave-drake
Resource player (RP): Responds with Gates of Morning
HP: Plays Twilight, targeting the Gates of Morning
RP: Plays Dark Tryst
Neither play responds and chain of events begins to resolve.
RP resolves Dark Tryst and draws his three cards.
One of the cards he drew is a Twilight, can he respond by playing Twilight, targeting the Twilight that is yet to resolve? Effectively, he resolves the first card in the chain then interrupts resolution to respond to a card not yet resolved?
I believe that is legal but I'm having trouble finding anything that confirms that.
Hazard player (HP): Play Cave-drake
Resource player (RP): Responds with Gates of Morning
HP: Plays Twilight, targeting the Gates of Morning
RP: Plays Dark Tryst
Neither play responds and chain of events begins to resolve.
RP resolves Dark Tryst and draws his three cards.
One of the cards he drew is a Twilight, can he respond by playing Twilight, targeting the Twilight that is yet to resolve? Effectively, he resolves the first card in the chain then interrupts resolution to respond to a card not yet resolved?
I believe that is legal but I'm having trouble finding anything that confirms that.
- Konrad Klar
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One thing I know that may interrupt a resolving chain of effects is a returning a company to its site of origin; this interrupts whole M/H phase of the company.
If there is a possibility to declare something in middle of a resolving chain of effects, it is because there is inner chain of effect in middle of the resolving.
If there is a possibility to declare something in middle of a resolving chain of effects, it is because there is inner chain of effect in middle of the resolving.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Circling back to this one to close this out. I found a specific ruling on this within the Ruling Digest (ICE Rulings Digest 3):SuperNovice wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:19 pm This does raise a question that I'm not clear on. Can you interrupt the resolution of a chain of events? You can't interrupt a card but consider the following:
Hazard player (HP): Play Cave-drake
Resource player (RP): Responds with Gates of Morning
HP: Plays Twilight, targeting the Gates of Morning
RP: Plays Dark Tryst
Neither play responds and chain of events begins to resolve.
RP resolves Dark Tryst and draws his three cards.
One of the cards he drew is a Twilight, can he respond by playing Twilight, targeting the Twilight that is yet to resolve? Effectively, he resolves the first card in the chain then interrupts resolution to respond to a card not yet resolved?
I believe that is legal but I'm having trouble finding anything that confirms that.
To paraphrase this, you CANNOT interrupt a chain of events while it is resolving. However, you can play Dark Tryst in response to a creature being played and allow the chain of events to resolve. This results in you drawing your three cards then the creature resolves and creates an attack. The attack can then be cancelled.Is it permissible to do the following:
1. In direct response to an attack, play Dark Tryst, draw 3 cards, and play one of those cards to cancel the attack.
Yes, because the attack can be canceled after it resolves.
2. In response to a cancellation of YOUR hazard creature when your hazard limit is used up, discard Daelomin at Home and use the extra hazard limit to play Many Sorrows Befall.
This would not work, because Many Sorrows Befall has to be played before the card it cancels resolves.
My (tenuous) understanding is that these things are NOT permissible, because they would involve playing two consecutives resources and/or hazards in the same chain of effects. Is this correct?
The first one is permissable, because it does not require declaring an action while the chain of effects is resolving. The second one requires you to declare the Many Sorrows Befall between Daelomin at Home resolving and the resource you want to cancel resolving.
You would not be able to play the Dark Tryst after the creature has resolved to draw cards then interrupt the chain to play the canceller during the resolution of the attack as the chain of events must be allowed to resolve uninterrupted. The second example illustrates this point with Daelomin at Home and Many Sorrows Befall.
Another example to consider would be when an event is played. If I play Doors of Night, you would not be able to play Dark Tryst to draw a Twilight to counter the Doors of Night. You would need to either have Twilight in your hand or you would need to play Twilight on Doors of Night after it resolves.
- Konrad Klar
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I disagree.SuperNovice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 5:32 pm You would not be able to play the Dark Tryst after the creature has resolved to draw cards then interrupt the chain to play the canceller during the resolution of the attack as the chain of events must be allowed to resolve uninterrupted. The second example illustrates this point with Daelomin at Home and Many Sorrows Befall
When creature is in play, strikes have not been assigned yet there is a time for multiple chain of effects.
For example:
Player plays Concealment, his opponent responds with Searching Eye.
Then a resource player plays More Sense by You, or another Concealment, or Dark Tryst.
Then he may play one of cards drawn with Dark Tryst.
Are you suggesting that when creature is in play, strikes have not been assigned yet, players are limited in what they may declare?
Beside:
?Lidless Eye, Part V – Appendices, Glossary, Combat wrote:During combat, no attack may be actively declared.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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I don't know why you're arguing with a quote directly from the Rules Digest but this has been a theme recently.
I quoted directly from Ichabod's ruling that illustrated that you cannot interrupt a chain of events once it starts resolving. You can resolve the chain then respond to start a new chain but you cannot partially resolve a chain. For example, you can play concealment after the entire chain is resolved but you cannot resolve only the Dark Tryst then try to play a card that was drawn from Dark Tryst.
I'm not sure what there is to debate here unless you have a different interpretation of the rulings that I posted. If you want to talk about how you think the game ought to be played, I'll bow out.
I quoted directly from Ichabod's ruling that illustrated that you cannot interrupt a chain of events once it starts resolving. You can resolve the chain then respond to start a new chain but you cannot partially resolve a chain. For example, you can play concealment after the entire chain is resolved but you cannot resolve only the Dark Tryst then try to play a card that was drawn from Dark Tryst.
I'm not sure what there is to debate here unless you have a different interpretation of the rulings that I posted. If you want to talk about how you think the game ought to be played, I'll bow out.
- Konrad Klar
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Chain of effects started by creature card is not fully resolved when the creature is in play and its attack is faced.
If players plays at this point Concealment he is playing the card in inner chain of effects. Chain of effects that occurs in middle of resolving an other chain of effects.
And if it is concern: if players plays Dark Tryst in response to other action, he cannot play any of card drawn with Dark Tryst at the point when Dark Tryst has been resolved, executed and removed from game. He must wait for finish of the current chain of effect or for moment when inner chain of effects may be started.
EDIT: "has been resolved, executed an discarded" -> "has been resolved, executed and removed from game"
If players plays at this point Concealment he is playing the card in inner chain of effects. Chain of effects that occurs in middle of resolving an other chain of effects.
And if it is concern: if players plays Dark Tryst in response to other action, he cannot play any of card drawn with Dark Tryst at the point when Dark Tryst has been resolved, executed and removed from game. He must wait for finish of the current chain of effect or for moment when inner chain of effects may be started.
EDIT: "has been resolved, executed an discarded" -> "has been resolved, executed and removed from game"
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.