May Uvatha the Ringwraith join at any site?

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Grishnakh
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The "Uvatha The Ringwraith" says, "He may join another RW's company ...".

May he join as a follower at any site where the main RW moved or just at havens or his homesite, like characters could come in play normaly?

Thanks in advance for clearness ;)

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Konrad Klar
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Unique. Manifestation of Ûvatha the Horseman. Can use spirit-magic. -3 direct influence in Heralded Lord mode. -1 prowess in Fell Rider mode. He may join another Ringwraith’s company during your organization phase and requires no influence to control. As your Ringwraith, if at a Darkhaven [ [-me_dha-] ], he may tap during your organization phase to move one resource event card from your discard pile to your play deck and reshuffle.
Your Ringwraith is already in play.
  • Your Ringwraith is at a Darkhaven or he is at the Ringwraith follower’s home site.
  • You have the card of the additional Ringwraith in your hand.
  • Your opponent does not have the Ringwraith already in play and the Ringwraith has not been eliminated.
  • You have the card or ability allowing a Ringwraith follower to be played (e.g., They Ride Together, The Witch-king’s ability).
I think that Ûvatha the Ringwraith's ability fulfills only last condition.
So only at a Darkhaven or at his home site.
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Bandobras Took
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Uvatha's ability is not just about the play of RW Followers.
CRF, Ringwraith Followers wrote:When your revealed Ringwraith leaves play without being eliminated, you have until the end of your next organization phase to bring your Ringwraith back into play and use him to re-control any Ringwraith followers. Otherwise, all Ringwraith followers are discarded.
In the case where your RW is returned to hand and Uvatha remains in play, Uvatha's ability allows him to join your RW in the next organization phase regardless of where your RW is located.

Since the ability does not require a specific site in this instance, I would say it does not require a specific site in any instance.
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Konrad Klar
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Your revealed Ringwraith may rejoin with its followers regardless of their abilities. He join them, not they him; they are already in play.
He may join another Ringwraith’s company during your organization phase and requires no influence to control. is applicable only when Ûvatha the Ringwraith is in hand or in other source from that he may be played.
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Konrad Klar
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Konrad Klar wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:19 am He may join another Ringwraith’s company during your organization phase and requires no influence to control. is applicable only when Ûvatha the Ringwraith is in hand or in other source from that he may be played.
More precisely the joining ability is applicable only when Ûvatha the Ringwraith is in hand or in other source from that he may be played. Requiring no influence to control applies always.
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Bandobras Took
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Konrad Klar wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:19 am Your revealed Ringwraith may rejoin with its followers regardless of their abilities. He join them, not they him; they are already in play.
He may join another Ringwraith’s company during your organization phase and requires no influence to control. is applicable only when Ûvatha the Ringwraith is in hand or in other source from that he may be played.
Why should that be? His ability says nothing about being played.
Alatar wrote:If in a Haven when a hazard creature is played on another company, he may join than company and face one
of the hazard creatureʹs strikes
Uvatha wrote:He may join another Ringwraith’s company during your organization phase and requires no influence to control.
I find no substantial difference between these two phrases. Alatar joining a company requires that Alatar already be in play at a specific site. Uvatha has no such limitation, but otherwise they are functionally identical. Using Uvatha's ability to play Uvatha is only one of the uses for the ability, not the only one.

(see also Fellowship, where "join" can refer to character play or reorganization of companies, and Vanguard of Might, where it is an open question of whether being played from the hand was even intended in the ability of the Balrog to join the company.)
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Grishnakh
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But first of all, Uvatha has to come into play like characters have to (@ havens or his home site).
Isn't it?

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Konrad Klar
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Bandobras Took wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:35 pm Since the ability does not require a specific site in this instance, I would say it does not require a specific site in any instance.
OR: Since this instance (rejoining RW follower with its controlling Ringwraith) does not require any joining ability and is not activity of the follower (your revealed Ringwraith is being played, not follower; follower is passive here), the Ûvatha the Ringwraith's joining ability has nothing to do with this instance.

Exclude what is impossible and you will have a rest.

I exclude a possibility that Ûvatha the Ringwraith's joining ability has anything to do with a joining that does not require any ability.
I exclude a possibility that it has to do with situations that may not happen - multiple Ringwraith companies at different sites, some with standalone followers.
I exclude a possibility of joining other player's Ringwraith company.
Bandobras Took wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:20 pm Why should that be? His ability says nothing about being played.
Alatar's ability requires Alatar being at Haven and other company facing an attack of hazard creature.
Ûvatha the Ringwraith's joining ability requires another Ringwraith’s company and organization phase.

Why?
Maybe because it has anything to do only with bringing into play Ringwraith follower. No need to repeat defaults.
Out of this context you have the possibilities mentioned above. Maybe there are some other.

To join other company an entity needs to not be in the company just before. If Gandalf was not in Faramir's company and now Gandalf appears in the company then Faramir's company becomes Gandalf's company, Wizard's own company. Faramir does not join the company.

Grishnakh wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:12 am But first of all, Uvatha has to come into play like characters have to (@ havens or his home site).
Isn't it?
It may depend on result of splitting a hair. Result that you may have to choose.
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Bandobras Took
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I'm not certain where you're getting the idea that multiple RW companies cannot exist. The rules explicitly allow for such, as I quoted.

Just in case, I'll quote it again:
When your revealed Ringwraith leaves play without being eliminated, you have until the end of your next organization phase to bring your Ringwraith back into play and use him to re-control any Ringwraith followers. Otherwise, all Ringwraith followers are discarded.
Why would Uvatha, as a RW follower, be unable to use his ability in this example? If my RW is returned to my hand (Black Horse leaves active play), Uvatha as a follower is not discarded, by rule, but continues to move to the site. When I bring my RW back into play next turn, I may use Uvatha's ability to join that RW's company.

Therefore, Uvatha's ability does not require anything to do with character play. I am uncertain where your ideas to the contrary come from.

Also, joining a company is not mutually exclusive. Gandalf joins Faramir's company, and Faramir joins Gandalf's company.
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Konrad Klar
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Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:49 pm I'm not certain where you're getting the idea that multiple RW companies cannot exist. The rules explicitly allow for such, as I quoted.
Yes. Multiple Ringwraith's companies may exist. Multiple Ringwraith's companies of the same player may not exist.
If company containing only Ringwraith followers counts as Ringwraith’s company, then yes - Ûvatha the Ringwraith's ability has nothing to do with a procedure of bringing into play a Ringwraith follower.
And... you won.

Then status of Ûvatha the Ringwraith is uncertain - it is not Ringwraith follower and not your revealed Ringwraith (unless he used the ability to rejoin his followers, absolutely needlessly).
Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:49 pm Also, joining a company is not mutually exclusive. Gandalf joins Faramir's company, and Faramir joins Gandalf's company.
Yes. But if there was not Gandalf's company just before Gandalf appeared in Faramir's company Faramir did not join Gandalf's company.
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Konrad Klar
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When your revealed Ringwraith leaves play without being eliminated, you have until the end of your next organization phase to bring your Ringwraith back into play and use him to re-control any Ringwraith followers. Otherwise, all Ringwraith followers are discarded.
Are you assuming that it may be in case when your Ringwraith and followers are at different sites?

Even if so, it still does not require Ûvatha the Ringwraith joining ability.
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Bandobras Took
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There is no other way to interpret the CRF.

A RW company at a non-darkhaven site may have your RW returned to hand. Any RW followers remain in play. They are not immediately discarded. During the next organization phase, any RW Followers in play must once again be controlled by your RW or be discarded at the end of the organization phase. If you bring your RW into play at any site other than the one that the RW followers are at, it will be impossible for your RW to control them, so they will be discarded at the end of the organization phase -- except Uvatha, who can use his ability to join your RW at whichever site you played your RW at. He will once again be controlled by your RW and not discarded.
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Konrad Klar
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Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:29 pm There is no other way to interpret the CRF.
Other way is: you may take this option if there are conditions. (Former) followers are at the site where your revealed Ringwraith may be played and you are able to play him. At no moment there are two companies containing Ringwraiths of the same player.

Driver license does not mean that you may take any car and drive it.
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Bandobras Took
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Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:40 pm
Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:29 pm There is no other way to interpret the CRF.
Other way is: you may take this option if there are conditions. (Former) followers are at the site where your revealed Ringwraith may be played and you are able to play him. At no moment there are two companies containing Ringwraiths of the same player.

Driver license does not mean that you may take any car and drive it.
That interpretation only works if it is impossible to play your RW if RW followers are in play at a site where you may not play your RW. There is no such rule, nor is such a rule even implied. The rule is that you may play your RW, and any RW followers that are not controlled by your RW at the end of your organization phase are then discarded.

(Side note: it seems like Left Behind would also create a separate RW company, unless there is a rule against playing it against minions. I cannot find such a rule.)
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Konrad Klar
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Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:25 pm (Side note: it seems like Left Behind would also create a separate RW company, unless there is a rule against playing it against minions. I cannot find such a rule.)
Lidless Eye wrote:A Ringwraith follower must always be under the control of your Ringwraith and may move to non-Darkhaven sites with your Ringwraith.
And I think the CRF entry related to Ringwraith Follower is exception from the rule.
Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:25 pm That interpretation only works if it is impossible to play your RW if RW followers are in play at a site where you may not play your RW. There is no such rule, nor is such a rule even implied. The rule is that you may play your RW, and any RW followers that are not controlled by your RW at the end of your organization phase are then discarded.
Yes. Exclude what is impossible and you will have the rest.
Otherwise two companies of the same player containing RW characters at the same time are possible and teleportation of Ringwraith Followers is possible too.
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