Prophet of Doom

[Konrad Klar]

Hi,the winner of the worlds 2023 in Sacramento played a FW Saruman deck.Squatting all game long on minion Ettenmoors with Hidden Haven,Guarded Haven and Halls of Fire on it.So that was illegal?

Out of topic.
Halls of Fire on minion Ettenmoors is illegal.

[Bandobras Took]

Hidden Haven would permit it, since at that point Ettenmoors is considered a Wizardhaven. Hidden Haven would have to be played first, however.

Edit: There is room for doubt in the common interpretation; Wizardhavens may possibly only be both hero and minion for the purposes of playing cards that would normally tap the site.

[Konrad Klar]

Hidden Haven would permit it, since at that point Ettenmoors is considered a Wizardhaven. Hidden Haven would have to be played first, however.

Playing Resources at a Site—In order to play a non-Fallen-wizard resource that
would normally tap a site, either the site and the resource to be played must both be
hero cards or they must both be minion cards. For these purposes, a Fallen-wizard site
card (or any Wizardhaven) is both a hero site and a minion site

The resources are factions, allies, items, some events playable at site. They do not target a site.
However hero resource event may not target a minion site.
Minion site converted to Wizardhaven is still minion site. It is both a hero site and a minion site for purposes described above.

Which excludes a playing on it any hero/minion event that both targets and taps the site.

[Uwe]

Hi,sorry it was not Ettenmoors but The Worthy Hills.As that site NEVER taps,Halls of Fire played may be legal.

[Konrad Klar]

The fact that some resource does not normally tap a site does not mean that the resource does not target the site.
For FW player a hero resource event may not target a minion site, whether the site is Wizardhaven or not.

Also a hero resource or a minion resource that both targets and taps a site may not be played on Deep Mines, because a Fallen-wizard site
card (or any Wizardhaven) is both a hero site and a minion site for purposes of playing of non-Fallen-wizard resource that
would normally tap a site.

[Bandobras Took]

Hidden Haven would permit it, since at that point Ettenmoors is considered a Wizardhaven. Hidden Haven would have to be played first, however.

Playing Resources at a Site—In order to play a non-Fallen-wizard resource that
would normally tap a site, either the site and the resource to be played must both be
hero cards or they must both be minion cards. For these purposes, a Fallen-wizard site
card (or any Wizardhaven) is both a hero site and a minion site

The resources are factions, allies, items, some events playable at site. They do not target a site.
However hero resource event may not target a minion site.
Minion site converted to Wizardhaven is still minion site. It is both a hero site and a minion site for purposes described above.

Which excludes a playing on it any hero/minion event that both targets and taps the site.

The question is whether "these purposes" refers strictly to "Playing Resources at a Site" or also refers to "Targeting Site and Resource Cards." The rules can be read either way. (Playing resources at a site is only a single purpose, so one would expect the rule to say "For this purpose" rather than "these purposes".)

[Konrad Klar]

The rules can be read either way.

Right.

Tower Raided is playable on a site and normally taps the site.
Hillmen is playable at site and normally taps the site.

Tower Raided targets the site, Hillmen does not.


Playing Resources at a Site does not prevent Tower Raided from being played on Deep Mines (treated as or changed to ).
Targeting Site and Resource Cards prevents Tower Raided from being played on Deep Mines (treated as or changed to ).

Playing Resources at a Site does not apply to Hall of Fire at all; Hall of Fire does not tap the site it is played on.
Targeting Site and Resource Cards prevents Hall of Fire from being played on minion site. A site represented by minion site card is the minion site.

If converted to Wizardhaven or to other type of site the site represented by minion site card still remains a minon site. Wizardhaven site type of Cameth Brin allows for playing of both hero and minion Hillmen. It does not disable the restrictions imposed by Targeting Site and Resource Cards.

[Bandobras Took]

You're right; I was misreading a couple of sentences.