First of the Order

[Darksatin]

It is my last turn (and the last turn of the game).
I play "First of the Order" on my Saruman.

"Playable on Saruman. Saruman receives +2 to all corruption checks for the rest of the turn."

Do the +2 is effective during the Free Council ?

[Bandobras Took]

The Council would not actually begin until your turn has ended, so I would say no. It would need to be played during the cc caused by the Free Council.

[Konrad Klar]

He, he...
There is no turn (thus there is no rest of turn) during Free Council. However CRF allows to use Magical Harp at the Free Council. Presumably not for no effect (other than corruption check of bearer).

[Bandobras Took]

Good point. Might have to bring it up to the NetRep.

[Konrad Klar]

For the rest of sessions of NetRep...

[Darksatin]

I'm digging up this old thread.
Is there an official answer?

[DamienX207]

Do the +2 is effective during the Free Council ?

No, once the current turn ends, the effects of FotO (and other short-events) go away. For further citation, this was confirmed by ICE's NetRep on 10/7/96. The fact that actions that would reduce a character’s corruption point total or prevent a character from being discarded upon resolution can be used during the first step of the end of the game (e.g. Magical Harp) doesn't mean that other short-events are still active that would have expired at the end of the previous turn.

[Konrad Klar]

The fact that actions that would reduce a character’s corruption point total or prevent a character from being discarded upon resolution can be used during the first step of the end of the game (e.g. Magical Harp) doesn't mean that other short-events are still active that would have expired at the end of the previous turn.

I think that the effects that state "until end of (the) turn" would be OK. They would be active infinitely.
"for the rest of the turn" specifies a period in which some effect is active; "until end of (the) turn" specifies when some effect is terminated.

In my opinion this is a shame that using of Magical Harp with its current text is allowed during Council.
An offence of logic and also consistency (if First of the Order is not allowed at the same time) .

[DamienX207]

I think that the effects that state "until end of (the) turn" would be OK. They would be active infinitely.

When the turn ends, the effect ends, literally based on the English text as well as ICE's NetRep ruling. There's no reason nor evidence that the short-event's effects would be active "infinitely."

[Konrad Klar]

Any on-going effect lasts by specified period or until it is terminated. No matter whether the effect is initiated by short-event or by something else.
Some short-events do not specify any period of their effects nor what terminates their on-going effects (e.g. Come by Night Upon Them).

Unlike cards that are not discarded when they are resolved and the executed short-events need to specify period in which on-going effect they create is active or moment/condition that terminates the on-going effect. It may not be assumed that the on-going effect lasts as long as the short-events are in play.
If they do not specify such period or the moment/condition then the alleged on-going effect they create is either immediate action (with eventual results that persists in play) or it lasts infinitely.

There is no rule that says that on-going effect created by a short-event ends when turn in which the short-event has been played ends.
Existence of such rule would render statements like "until end of (the) turn", "for the rest of the turn" redundant.
And even if such rule would exist it would be not applicable in situations like Council.

[DamienX207]

I have been answering Darksatin's question in terms of the Council of Elrond tournament rules based on the historical literature, as with all due respect I prefer to not get dragged into arguments about personal interpretations that ignore CoE rules ad nauseum (just noting that there IS a rule about this general point, Rule 5.1.1 for those curious). I hope the original question feels sufficiently answered in the context of CoE tournament play - no, FotO played during your final turn would not extend into the Council - but Darksatin please holler if you feel like you need more clarification!

[Bandobras Took]

My question, though, is whether First of the Order can be played during the Free Council at all. Does it count as something that will affect the corruption check, even though there is no end of turn duration during the Free Council?

[DamienX207]

Since FotO would directly affect Saruman's corruption check during the first step after the game has been called and doesn't have any active conditions other than Saruman being in play, it would be playable on Saruman at that point (similar to Magical Harp). You just couldn't get its effect during your final turn AND after the game has been called, since your final turn does end in between.