Nobody's Friend and Inner Cunning

[Konrad Klar]

Ah but that's a different situation. The player isn't trying to play Smoke Rings for no effect.

Are you sure? You don't know content of his DP.
Eventually player may play Revealed to All Watchers in response to its own Morgul Horse and do not draw any Nazgul (bad luck), that could be played as first card of next coe.
He is obliged to play Nazgul in next coe, but he is not obliged to having Nazgul in hand (nor anywhere else).

[Jambo]

Well, look at it this way, if he was trying to play Smoke Rings for no effect and you put Bane down in response, you just did him a favour by fizzling the card. Otherwise, he'd be taking Smoke Rings back to hand.

[Jambo]

Unless stated otherwise, a card is playable only if its effect applies to an existing situation, hazard, attack, etc. (i.e., you may not play a card just to discard it). A card cannot be played for no effect. A card may be played if it has potential effect.

[Konrad Klar]

Well, look at it this way, if he was trying to play Smoke Rings for no effect and you put Bane down in response, you just did him a favour by fizzling the card. Otherwise, he'd be taking Smoke Rings back to hand.

I cannot realize, how such rules would be executed.
There are many factors having impact on final effectiveness/uneffectiveness of actions.

Player may rely on its opponent's response or assuming that some card will be discarded before resolution of cards like smoke Rings or Mouth of Sauron.
Now, if his assumptions was correct, he is "legal". And no one is verifying wheter he was "legal" at declaration of card. (And no one call it cheating).
If his assumptions was wrong, his opponent may say "your card was played for no effect, go back it to your hands".
Sometimes player can excuse: "I was legal, but legality has been changed by your response (I was not expecting Bane of The Ithil-Stone or Aware of Their Ways)".

[Konrad Klar]

I think that Morgul Horse CRF entry cannot be applied as general rule. It is Morgul Horse specific. Morgul Horse and Fell Beast are special. It targets objects that are not yet in play (and as such breaks rules on targeting) and it needs a special rulings.

[Balin]

confused...


Can I really play NF or IC against minions (and take an agent) or not?

[Konrad Klar]

No one here (at Rules Question) is authorized to give oficial answer.

My opinion about this question has not changed.

[Bandobras Took]

The rules currently allow you to play river on a site even if there's no actual way for a company to move there, because there's always the theoretical possibility that a company will move there. It is the same for Inner Cunning/Nobody's Friend. You may play them on the completely theoretical possibility that there's an Agent in your deck.

In answer to the original question:

As far as requiring an agent, Konrad's reasoning is sound. The card does not require an agent in its second use; it is not agent only, neither does it target the agent.

[Shapeshifter]

Not that this will answer the question but I throw it in anyway:

Can a hero play Inner Cunning to fish an agent out of the playdeck?

*** I'm guessing you're talking about playing Inner Cunning when you're
playing against a minion player...

CRF, Rulings by Term, Card Effect Limitations:
# You may not play the following cards if your opponent is a Ringwraith
or Sauron. Additionally, if you are not a Ringwraith or Sauron, a
Ringwraith or Sauron opponent can play these cards against you and not
be affected by any of their global effects.

* All hazard events that require an agent*

[Bandobras Took]

Yes, the question is whether the second effect of Nobody's Friend requires an agent. I believe it does not in much the same way that River does not require a company actually moving to the site.

[Jambo]

As to the original question, yes I do believe the secondary effect is playable versus minion. Konrad has demonstrated this sufficiently.

Since the card allows you to search through your play deck, it will always have a potential effect -- you have to shuffle your play deck after searching through it. So I think it could always be played and does not require an agent to be played.

But the card says "Take any agent..." There's no option about it, otherwise it would have said, "You may take any agent..."

Therefore, to not take an agent is playing this card for no effect and playing it to discard the card, both of which are not allowed.

Untap a character in your Wizard's company.

This card doesn't have playability conditions, however, if all the characters in your Wizard's company are untapped, you cannot play this card.

[Konrad Klar]

If object is unequivocally specified at declaration, it is a target.

If card says "make some operation on X", it does not need to say "Playable on X".

[Jambo]

"Untap a character" vs "Take any agent"

If there's more than one tapped character in the Wizard's company is the character chosen at declaration?

[Konrad Klar]

"Any" and presence of agent in DP indicates choice of object.

And Forth He Hastened is like New Moon, or Gnaw With Words (an many others).

If choice of object is not listed in card's text as action, then it may be assumed that object must be specified at declaration (i.e. is target).

For unrevealed cards, it may be assumed that player can choose appropriate card from deck/pile/sideboard at resolution, unless it is specifically stated that card is playable on card in PD/DP/SB.

You may ask: where is justification for this statement?

Annotation 8: An action that requires a target is considered to have the active
condition that the target be in play when the action is declared and when it is resolved.
An action may not be declared if its target is not in play. However, dice-rolling actions may always be targeted by other actions declared later in the same chain of effects.

So action must specifically state that it is playable on card not in play, superseding general rules. Otherwise card in deck, pile, sideboard cannot be considered as target.

[Bandobras Took]

Therefore, to not take an agent is playing this card for no effect and playing it to discard the card, both of which are not allowed.

As I said before, since the card allows you to search through your play deck, it has the secondary effect of shuffling your play deck regardless of whether there's an agent there or not.

You can also play All Thought Bent On It even if there isn't an item in your play deck. It will tap the sage and the site and force them to make a corruption check, even though the main effect of the card is unable to be fulfilled.

And speaking frankly, there are times when I can't remember if there's a card in my deck or not. I might play Inner Cunning just to look through my play deck.