WHCtK and RW followers...

[Wacho]

Wacho:
unless i've missed something in the MELE rulebook only Witch-king and Khamul can play ringwraith followers. Although all rignwraiths can have ringwraith followers - but unless Witch-king or Khamul, you need to play a special resource (like They Ride Together) to actually be able to play ringwraith followers

We Have Come to Kill is such a special resource. If RW followers are allowed at all with WHCtK then any RW could use it to bring in RW followers.

[Bandobras Took]

So FW players can use We Have Come to Kill to bring in characters with 9 mind, since the short event overrides all normal playability restrictions on characters? Cool.

[|Highwayman|]

you're probably right, but for the sake of consistency and disallowing ringwraith followers to be played with We Have Come to Kill I chose to lose this battle and agree that Poisonous Despair can be used by a Ringwriath follower to cancel an influence attempt against any of your factions

I'm not sure there's any consistency to break -- only RWs are allowed to have followers that might otherwise be used as avatars.

if we step back in case of Poisonous Despair, and start treating ringwraith followers like something less then a ringwraith - then, in my opinion, it would be inconsistent with the We Have Come to Kill case where we treat ringwraith followers simply as ringwraiths

And I don't think that (even if We Have Come to Kill would allow to play ringwraith followers) it would be possible to play a ringwraith follower with anyone else than Witch-king or Khamul. We Have Come to Kill may change some rules about bringing in characters into play (like the site you can do that on) but it doesn't change grand rules (like fallen wizard's inability to play characters with a mind stat greater than 5, or being able to play characters outside of org. phase - I know it's not the current ruling but I'll stir up this discussion shortly, when I have some free time to post what I think and what I have found on the matter)

[Leon]

The rules that I know about RW followers are these:

RINGWRAITH FOLLOWERS
If the following conditions are met, you may bring another (different) Ringwraith character into play at your Ringwraith's site - such a character is called a "Ringwraith follower."
· Your Ringwraith is already in play.
· Your Ringwraith is at a Darkhaven or he is at the Ringwraith follower's home site.
· You have the card of the additional Ringwraith in your hand.
· Your opponent does not have the Ringwraith already in play and the Ringwraith has not been eliminated.
· You have the card or ability allowing a Ringwraith follower to be played (e.g., They Ride Together, The Witch-king's ability).
A Ringwraith follower must always be under the control of your Ringwraith and may move to non-Darkhaven sites with your Ringwraith. Your Ringwraith must use 1 point of direct influence to control each Ringwraith follower. Your Ringwraith follower may not be influenced away by your opponent.
A Ringwraith follower may not use any of its special abilities. Ûvatha's ability to automatically join another Ringwraith's company is an exception to this.
When you reveal your Ringwraith, your opponent must discard any identical Ringwraith card that has been played as a Ringwraith follower.

Unless other rules have changed this any RW can have followers, Khamul and the WitchKing just a few extra. This discussion is about whether We Have Come to Kill would be considered a card that can play these followers, it does not change the fact that they can be played, merely when they can be played.

[|Highwayman|]

it's a bit stupid but even if all Ringwraiths can have Ringwraith followers, only Khamul and Witch-king have the ability to actually play a Ringwraith follower, other Ringwraiths have to use some extra cards (like Black Horse or They Ride Together)

but I think I get the point - if We Have Come to Kill would allow to play Ringwraith followers then I guess it would allow any Ringwraith to do so; but I still strongly oppose the idea of We Have Come to Kill being able to bring in Ringwraith followers into play

[Leon]

I agree, I do not like the ability to bring in RW followers with WHCtK.

[Bandobras Took]

but I think I get the point - if We Have Come to Kill would allow to play Ringwraith followers then I guess it would allow any Ringwraith to do so; but I still strongly oppose the idea of We Have Come to Kill being able to bring in Ringwraith followers into play

No more than We Have Come to Kill allows one to play a Troll with a company of Dunedain.

[Wacho]

@Took: Of course you can't play >6 mind characters if you are a FW with WHCTK or Trolls with Dunedain outside of a haven because these plays violate a rule of the game. However the rules state that you can play RW followers with any RW. Those other than the Witch-King or Khamul need a special card to be able to do so. If WHCTK is such a special card than any RW could use it, there is no rule violation.

The question of whether WHCTK is such a special card is another question altogether. In my opinion it wasn't meant to be used this way, but there is some ambiguity. If you really want a good answer to this ask the NetRep for a ruling.

[Jambo]

If you really want a good answer to this ask the NetRep for a ruling.

I have - first post.

Anyway, I guess a better analogy would be whether FWs can use WHCtK to bring in a Troll or Orc character without Bad Company or Thrall of the Voice?

[Bandobras Took]

@Took: Of course you can't play >6 mind characters if you are a FW with WHCTK or Trolls with Dunedain outside of a haven because these plays violate a rule of the game. However the rules state that you can play RW followers with any RW. Those other than the Witch-King or Khamul need a special card to be able to do so. If WHCTK is such a special card than any RW could use it, there is no rule violation.

FWs can have characters greater than 5 mind, but they can't normally play them.

RWs can have RW followers, but they can't normally play them.

I would say that the Witch-King's and Khamul's abilities allow the play of RW Followers, and that We Have Come to Kill would enable allowed followers to be brought into play at any Ruins, Shadow, or Dark Hold.

I would further postulate that any RW controlling a Black Horse could use We Have Come to Kill to play a RW follower.

I do not believe that We Have Come to Kill enables RW follower play all by itself.

I also believe, given the context, that the Ruling is meant only to apply to RW avatars -- the original question is whether WHCtK can be used to bring in "my Ringwraith."