Council of Elrond

METW Rulebook Victory Conditions wrote:If you move the One Ring to Mount Doom and play certain cards -- The One Ring is destroyed and you win.

According to this, you only win by cards allowing such a victory (Cracks of Doom, Gollum's Fate) if you have moved The One Ring to Mount Doom.

Thoughts?

Seems pretty conclusive.

What if The One Ring is influenced away at Mount Doom from opponent, that moved it to the Mount Doom?
Or if The One Ring is stolen in CvCC at Mount Doom?

It must be removed and re-moved there?

Doesn't the text of those cards take precedence over that rule?

GOLLUM'S FATE Short event (R)
Unique. Only playable if The One Ring and Gollum are both at Mount Doom during the site phase. The One Ring is
destroyed and its bearer’s player wins.

CRACKS OF DOOM Short event (U)
Only playable if The One Ring is at Mount Doom during the site phase. Its bearer must make a corruption check modified by -4. If
successful, The One Ring is destroyed and its bearer’s player wins.

I agree with Josesan here. IMO The Victory Conditions statement seems to be a bit vague and unprecise while the text of these cards is concrete.

Jose-san wrote:Doesn't the text of those cards take precedence over that rule?

GOLLUM'S FATE Short event (R)
Unique. Only playable if The One Ring and Gollum are both at Mount Doom during the site phase. The One Ring is
destroyed and its bearer’s player wins.

CRACKS OF DOOM Short event (U)
Only playable if The One Ring is at Mount Doom during the site phase. Its bearer must make a corruption check modified by -4. If
successful, The One Ring is destroyed and its bearer’s player wins.

Both of those card indicate that they allow a victory by the One Ring. That means that the rule for winning by the One Ring applies to them. Neither of them contradicts the rule explicitly, so the rule should remain in force, shouldn't it?

Konrad Klar wrote:What if The One Ring is influenced away at Mount Doom from opponent, that moved it to the Mount Doom?
Or if The One Ring is stolen in CvCC at Mount Doom?

It must be removed and re-moved there?

According to this rule, I think so . . .

IMO, the fact is that you can still play Cracks of Doom/Gollum's Fate at Mt. Doom, even if the one ring didn't move there. Both cards state that the One Ring has to be at Mt. Doom, that's all. Would that mean you can play Cracks of Doom, but not win the game because of a that ruling? I really don't think so...

Konrad Klar wrote:What if The One Ring is influenced away at Mount Doom from opponent, that moved it to the Mount Doom?
Or if The One Ring is stolen in CvCC at Mount Doom?

It must be removed and re-moved there?

As long as the One-ring had been moved to Mount Doom it wouldn't matter I guess...

Still, as lovely as it would be, I think we'd be clutching at straws to take this 'rule' as literally as it's been written.

Jambo wrote:

Konrad Klar wrote:What if The One Ring is influenced away at Mount Doom from opponent, that moved it to the Mount Doom?
Or if The One Ring is stolen in CvCC at Mount Doom?

It must be removed and re-moved there?

As long as the One-ring had been moved to Mount Doom it wouldn't matter I guess...

Still, as lovely as it would be, I think we'd be clutching at straws to take this 'rule' as literally as it's been written.

If you move the One Ring to Mount Doom and play certain cards -- The One Ring is destroyed and you win.

Jambo wrote:
Still, as lovely as it would be, I think we'd be clutching at straws to take this 'rule' as literally as it's been written.

Agree with that too...

It would be wondeful to not take rules literally as written. That would mean that Adunaphel can target any character.

There's nothing in either card text that overrides the rule for winning by the One Ring that you must have moved the One Ring to Mount Doom. All the card text does is indicate that it is a card to which the rule can apply -- the rule mentions no card by name, but applies to any instances of winning with the One Ring at Mount Doom by the play of certain cards.

Edit: The Playability conditions are not added permissions, they are added restrictions. For example, Riders of Rohan states "Playable at Edoras", but this does not mean that all the normal rules applying to playing a faction are overturned -- it must still be in the site phase, you must tap the character and the site, etc. Playable at Edoras is a further limitation to normal faction play, not an abrogation of it.

Manuel wrote:Would that mean you can play Cracks of Doom, but not win the game because of a that ruling? I really don't think so...

As a minor point, it's not a ruling, it's a rule.

But yes, that is what it would mean. The rules flat out state that you can only win by the play of certain cards if you have moved the One Ring to Mount Doom. There isn't room for hedging.

Just because it results in weird situations doesn't mean that it should be ignored or completely rewritten (if it does mean that, can we first completely ignore and rewrite the rules about cards playable on automatic attacks?).

not that it has any value to just voice simple support for a certain reading of rules, but: Bandobras, you da man!!! And on another note, it shows that re-reading the rules after neglecting the damn booklet for 10 years can always pay off.

now for theme, the only type of argument I tend to bring into a rules conversation: how obviously correct is the necessity to bring the One Ring to Mount Doom! which retarded Boffin would take a journey to Mount Doom not knowing what he has in his pockets?

Thorsten the Traveller wrote: now for theme, the only type of argument I tend to bring into a rules conversation: how obviously correct is the necessity to bring the One Ring to Mount Doom! which retarded Boffin would take a journey to Mount Doom not knowing what he has in his pockets?

How perverted is the concept of recruiting of Gollum to the company as an ally, with hope that his greed will bring him to the death in fires of Mount Doom along with The One Ring?
Which finally allows to avoid personal dillema of The One Ring's bearer (cc-4)....