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Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:54 pm
by Sauron
Hall of Fire wrote:Playable on a Haven. Any company at this Haven immediately following its movement/hazard phase may choose for one of its characters to untap or heal (from wounded to tapped). Discard Hall of Fire when the site card is returned to the location deck.
CRF wrote:A target is an entity that an action is played out through. Enitities are only targets of an action if the action specifies those entities by number and type. Note that "the foo" counts as specifying one "foo."
Frodo wrote:I think Brian will, since this was his only hope of winning Nats.
Jambo wrote:Did Brian have a hope of winning the Nats?
Now onto what people percieve is incorrect play.
A target is an entity that an action is played out through. In this case it's a company. Hall of Fire states "Any company at this Haven immediately following its movement/hazard phase may choose for one of it's . . ." So what we have here is Hall of Fire "targeting" a company for that company to choose a character in it's company to untap.
However according to CRF Ben pointed out:
"Enitities are
only targets of an action if the action specifies those entities by number and type. Note that "the foo" counts as specifying one "foo."
So the entity here is a company. However a number of companies is never defined. It says ANY company. Therefore the company is NOT a target. So the action can be played out on a company and does not target the company.
Cheesey yes. Within the rules yes. Rules Lawyer 101
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:55 pm
by Sauron
Bandobras Took wrote:Sauron wrote:However according to CRF Ben pointed out:
"Enitities are only targets of an action if the action specifies those entities by number and type. Note that "the foo" counts as specifying one "foo."
So the entity here is a company. However a number of companies is never defined. It says ANY company. Therefore the company is NOT a target. So the action can be played out on a company and does not target the company.
You don't untap the company. Therefore the company is not the entity through which the untap action is played out. The company is the entity through which the choice action is played out.
Rules Lawyer 101
Rules Lawyer 102.
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:55 pm
by Sauron
Sauron wrote:
Bandobras Took wrote:Sauron wrote:However according to CRF Ben pointed out:
"Enitities are only targets of an action if the action specifies those entities by number and type. Note that "the foo" counts as specifying one "foo."
So the entity here is a company. However a number of companies is never defined. It says ANY company. Therefore the company is NOT a target. So the action can be played out on a company and does not target the company.
You don't untap the company. Therefore the company is not the entity through which the untap action is played out. The company is the entity through which the choice action is played out.
Rules Lawyer 101
Rules Lawyer 102.
No I don't untap the company. I choose a character in my company to untap.
The problem is you're defining it as 2 actions, and I define it as 1 action.
ICE never defined what an action really is.
I define it as 1 action because it's 1 complete sentence.
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:56 pm
by Sauron
Bandobras Took wrote:Yep.
Put another way, the company chooses, but it's still Hall of Fire that untaps the character, not the company.
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:56 pm
by Sauron
Sauron wrote:
True + False = False still
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:17 am
by Khamul the Easterling
Am I right in that this card only affects one specific copy of the given haven and a company there?
So, companies at, let's say, two copies of Lorien will not both be affected if the card is played only with one of these companies?
Opponent's companies will not profit from this card?
Is that similar to "Houses of Healing"?
Thanks!
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:43 am
by Konrad Klar
CRF, Rulings by Term, Site wrote:A permanent-event played on a site affects only the copy of the site it is played on,
unless otherwise specified. A permanent-event not played on a site affects all versions
of affected sites.
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:26 pm
by Khamul the Easterling
Thanks, so the answers are yes - yes - yes - yes.
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:00 pm
by Mordan
ahhh the good old Hall of Fire.
gotta love meccg rules
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:40 am
by ruinedsignaltower
I was reading about this card in the dark minions players guide and always thought it meant that you had have moved to the site that turn to get the effect.
Having read it multiple times now I assume that you can be camping at the haven and use it each turn e.g. tap and remove a corruption card then tap and play "The Hunt"?
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:59 am
by Konrad Klar
ruinedsignaltower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:40 am
Having read it multiple times now I assume that you can be camping at the haven and use it each turn e.g. tap and remove a corruption card then tap and play "The Hunt"?
This is unrelated to Hall of Fire. Character can tap to remove a corruption card on him in organization phase, Alatar does not tap to play The Hunt, he taps in result of last action from The Hunt (if he is untapped at the moment).
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:41 am
by ruinedsignaltower
Hi Konrad, the hunt was a bad example, say marvels told, or whatever
what i am getting at is that i'd misinterpreted hall of fire, as it seems to not require you to have moved to the site that turn.
Re: Hall of Fire Revisted
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:14 am
by Konrad Klar
Hi ruinedsignaltower!
ruinedsignaltower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:41 am
what i am getting at is that i'd misinterpreted hall of fire, as it seems to not require you to have moved to the site that turn.
Right. It only requires that a company must be at a site at the end of its M/H phase to take an advantage of Hall of Fire.