Council of Elrond

Can you play Lucky Search at a minion Dark-hold or Shadow-hold?

Can you play minion items with Lucky Search in a Fallen Wizard deck? And in a hero deck?

Can you play Sappling of the White Tree with Lucky Search?

Thanks!

Scout only. During the site phase, tap a scout at a Shadow-hold [S] or Dark-hold [D]. Turn over cards from your play deck one at a time until you reveal a non-special item or reach the end. If you reveal a non-special item, the scout takes control of it. In any case, the scout must face a single strike attack with a prowess equal to 3 plus the number of cards revealed; this attack/strike cannot be cancelled. Reshuffle all revealed cards except the item back into play deck.

Provided you can use both Lucky Search and minion sites, you can play Lucky Search at a minion site because it does not normally tap the site nor does it affect it in any way, nor is it a condition of the card play (it is the Scout who must be at the shadow-hold).

Likewise, the action of the Scout taking taking control is played out through the Scout, so Lucky Search does not target the item in question. Lucky Search does not affect the item, either.

Not playable in a Shadow-hold [S] or Dark-hold [D]. May be stored at Minas Tirith. 2 marshalling points if stored at Minas Tirith.

Lucky Search does not take into account whether an item is playable or not. Thus, Sapling, Hoard Items, etc. may be placed under control of the Scout.

Thanks!!!

CoE Rulings Digest #43 wrote:Hold Rebuilt & Repaired + Lucky Search: As far as I can tell, nothing
prevents a Fallen-wizard player from going out and Repairing minion
Weathertop, say, and then Lucky Searching the hell out of it. The site
has to be minion, because HRaR targets and affects the site. But Lucky
Search does not seem to target or affect the site, it targets a scout at
the site. And since LS doesn't tap the site, the "Playing Resources at
a Site" section of the MEWH rules don't apply either. All true, eh?
*** All true.

So yes, you can use Lucky Search at minion sites.

CoE Rulings Digest #87 wrote:Can I use Lucky Search to play a minion item? Or is Lucky Search considered to target the item that is played?

*** You may not, as a Fallen-wizard, play a minion item with Lucky Search, as Lucky Search targets the item.

So no, you may not play minion items with Lucky Search as a FW.

CRF: Rulings by Term wrote:MELE vs. METW

* Hero items may not be used as conditions for minion resources, and minion items may not be used as conditions for hero resources. Note that a Fallen- wizard may play special ring items regardless of the alignment of the gold ring item tested.

I would say you cannot get minion items as a hero player either.

Getting a Sapling is totally fine.

I would not say the item is a condition for Lucky Search.
Special Ring Items says that may be played only with Gold Ring*, Challenge The Power says The Balrog must bear The One Ring, Tower Rided requires a company controlling an item worth at least 2MP.
Lucky Search is not a such case.

*) So FW ability to play a Special Ring of any alignment after testing of Gold Ring is an exeption from MELE vs. METW.
Black Rain may bypass it too.

Hmm...

CoE Digest #1 wrote:6. The was a question regarding the playability of a minion One Ring with a hero company and whether it's +1 corruption to all characters in the company would be in effect.
Wim generously researched and wrote:
"- You can test for it: 'normal requirements to play' ask for a gold ring and the right test only.
- You would indeed not suffer the extra 1 cp, as all bonuses and special abilities are ignored. "

Yeah I guess if you can do that, then as Hero you can dig for a minion items with Lucky Search too.

If player controlling the scout does not have any items included in his deck (which is legal) may he play the Lucky Search at all?
If so which item is condition of Lucky Search?

Well, since you ask, revealing the item could be seen as a condition for taking control of it (that's obv different from normal playability conditions though). But I'm fine with saying that it's allowed to get minion items with Lucky Search as a Hero player, so it's all good.

miguel wrote:

CoE Rulings Digest #87 wrote:Can I use Lucky Search to play a minion item? Or is Lucky Search considered to target the item that is played?

*** You may not, as a Fallen-wizard, play a minion item with Lucky Search, as Lucky Search targets the item.

So no, you may not play minion items with Lucky Search as a FW.

Can Hall of Fire be used to untap an orc or a troll?
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Yes. HoF does not target the orc/troll directly so that's legal.

I'm having difficulty understanding what directly and does not directly target a card; Lucky Search would seem to be the same kind of indirect targeting as Hall of Fire, wouldn't it?

Hall of Fire is a permanent-event which creates a passive condition (or possibly something similar). Lucky Search is a short-event, so the card itself = the actual effect. At least kind of.

I hope that's clear now.

I'm not sure whether this question "directly targets" Miguel, or does not target anyone.

In second case:
Card in play (X) may generate actions (Y).
Snowstorm (X) may generate action "return the company to the site of origin" (Y). The company is target of Y. The company is not target of X.
If X would be a hero event, the target would be overt or minion character/company/resource, without problems.

Technically there is not a thing like 'indirect targeting".

miguel wrote:At least kind of.

I hope that's clear now.

That's as clear as I think it'll get; I'll log it under my active conditions list.