Alatar teleport to face ahunt

[Alter Tuk]

Itangast ahunt
Unique. During the movement/hazard phase, the number of cards that opponent draws based on Alatar's company's movement is reduced by one. If in a haven when a hazard creature is played on another company, he may join that company and face one of the hazard creature's strikes; he must make a corruption check immediately following the attack, and, if untapped, he must tap.

Alatar
Unique. Any company moving in Withered Heath, Northern Rhovanion, Iron Hills, and/or Grey Mountain Narrows immediately faces one Dragon attack (considered a hazard creature attack)-4 strikes at 16/7. If Doors of Night is in play, this attack also affects: Southern Rhovanion, Dorwinion, Heart of Mirkwood, and Woodland Realm.

Is it possible for Alatar to teleport to a company attacked by an ahunt?

[Bandobras Took]

Playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play.

The hazard creature is not played. A Long Event is played. Therefore, Alatar's ability does not work, as it requires a hazard creature to be played.

[Alter Tuk]

Thank you for verifying. They didnt believe me this morning.

[kufel]

They didnt believe me this morning.

It's not the problem belive or not... (I Want To Belive! ) In common sense Alatar teleports to help with attack. Rules are for the game, not game for rules, btw text on card always (maybe not in MECCG) is over printed rules.

Playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play.

and what if I bring card (hazard creature) not from hand? for example during play my cards are laying face down on glass table not in hand: Alatar can teleport then?
it's sick...

[Alter Tuk]

and what if I bring card (hazard creature) not from hand? for example during play my cards are laying face down on glass table not in hand: Alatar can teleport then?

Obviously no. (If the creature doesnt come from your hand but from discard pile or deck or out of play or whatever. Your hand is considered your hand, no matter where you put it.)

Its the same discussion with Stealth vs Long Dark Reach.

http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... .php?t=893

Check NetRep digest # 120.

[Konrad Klar]

Probably another example of poor wording: "when a hazard creature is played on another company".
When played? Really?
How strange would be timing of such action? What if played hazard creature will fizzle?

[Bandobras Took]

As I never tire of saying:

A card is not in play until it is resolved in its chain of effects.

Playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play.

When you declare the card play action, your opponent has a chance to respond.

When the card play action resolves, the card is then considered played.

[Konrad Klar]

When the card play action resolves, the card is then considered played.

What does it mean? Before card play action resolves, the card is not considered played?

[Bandobras Took]

Right. Just as before a the canceling action Concealment resolves, an attack is not considered canceled, and before the site type change action of Quiet Lands resolves, the site type is not changed, etc.

Any action must declare and resolve before it is considered to have been done. Declaration alone is insufficient.

[Konrad Klar]

My question was different.
If I declare Quiet Lands it is not considered played until resolved?

[Bandobras Took]

If you declare any card play, it is not considered played until the Card Play action resolves. Quiet Lands works no differently from any other card in that respect.

[Konrad Klar]

Sounds strange, especially in context of definition of playing:
"Playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play."

Put aside definitions. Some practical implications:
According to your interpretation it would be possible to declare (to bring a card from hand into play) Twilight if Balance Between Powers is in play. Twilight just would not resolve in such case. It is not considered played, even if declared.
Similarly it would be possible to declare Bane of The Ithil-Stone if The Ithil-Stone (item) is in play.
Right?

P.S.
Some puzzles for you:

Annotation 27 : If a card has optional effects, the player playing the card must choose
which will take place. He must do this at the time the card is played, not when it is
resolved in its chain of effects. When such a card is resolved, if any active conditions
for the choice of effects do not exist, the card has no effect and is discarded. The
player may not at this point choose to implement an alternative effect of the card

Underline mine.

[Bandobras Took]

Playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play.

A card is not in play until it is resolved in its chain of effects.

He must do this at the time the card is played, not when it is
resolved in its chain of effects.

These rules are contradictory. The first two establish that a card is not played until it resolves, because playing a card requires that the card be brought into play, which cannot happen until it resolves.

The third suggests that a card is considered played on declaration. This is, unfortunately, incorrect. Otherwise Marvels Told could hit any permanent event that had not resolved yet because they are in play. However, we know that this is not the case.

Conclusion: the timing rule is poorly written. If cards are in play on declaration, than many cards operate completely differently than standard interpretation.

Re: Balance/Ithil Stone
I do not believe it is possible to declare illegal actions, but I confess I have no rules to back me up. Depending on the mood the NetRep team is in, it's entirely possible that this would be a case like In The Heart Of His Realm.

[Konrad Klar]

These rules are contradictory. The first two establish that a card is not played until it resolves, because playing a card requires that the card be brought into play, which cannot happen until it resolves.

Or you are using interchangeably "is played" and "is in play" and it is a source of confusion. It is a simplest explanation.

Another quote:

Declaring an Action: Stating that an action is being played, though the actual effects of the action are not implemented until both players have had the chance to respond with the declaration of other actions. Each time you play a card, you are declaring an action. Actions triggered by passive conditions are declared as the first action in the chain of effects following the chain of effects which produced the passive condition.

Short summary:
There are errors in some place. Where?

According to me:
Lidless Eye and CRF are correct here. Deaclaring a card, process of bringing a card into play, playing a card - all three are synonymous.
Some erroneous texts are present on few cards, namely Alatar (hero), Doors of Night (version from Lidless Eye only), Skies of Fire. "Is played" is written instead "is resolved" or "comes into play" in texts of these cards.

According to you (as I understand):
Alatar (hero), Doors of Night (version from Lidless Eye), Skies of Fire - all are correct here. "Is played" and "is in play" are synonymous, "is played" and "is declared" are not synonymous. Annotation 27 (and possibly Declaring an Action definition from LE) are poorly written.

[Bandobras Took]

Or you are using interchangeably "is played" and "is in play" and it is a source of confusion. It is a simplest explanation.

Not quite. The definition of playing a card from the CRF requires that the card be brought into play.

A card is only played when you play it. For "is played" to make any sense, we have to use the definition of playing a card as set forth in the CRF under that heading.

Short summary:
There are errors in some place. Where?

Everywhere.

I think this is an issue similar to the definition of an action -- ICE never really bothered to be consistent with the basic terms, so consistent interpretations are not possible without rewriting some rules.

A company commits to moving by playing a new site card (face down) during its organization phase.

Site cards do not come from the hand -- how can one play a site card?