Playing Cards during the Free Council

[Darksatin]

Only resources that directly affect corruption checks may be played during the Free Council. This includes cards that reduce a character's corruption point total or prevent a character from being discarded.

So, if Gates of Morning are in play, can I play "The Cock Crows" to remove a corruption card on one of my characters ?

[zirilan]

Yes, you can.

[Bruce]

And could the opponent play Twilight in response on GoM to fizzle The Cock Crows? My guess is no, because that wouldn't affect directly any character's burden of corruption. Is that correct?

[Bandobras Took]

Twilight doesn't directly affect a corruption check, nor does it reduce the corruption point total. My hunch is no, but I'm uncertain.

[Konrad Klar]

Twilight does not reduce a character's corruption point total. It even does not increase a character's corruption point total.
It would affect a final character's CP if played on Gates of Morning in response to The Cock Crows (character's corruption point total would be higher). However it is beyond the range of resources allowed by CRF, Turn Sequence, End-of-Game.

BTW. Rule says "This includes cards that reduce a character's corruption point total or prevent a character from being discarded."
How about resources that modify corruption check itself (i.e. dice-roll), like Old Friendship?

[Bruce]

IIRC the CRF says somewhere that resources which affect a dice roll are always playable (before the dice roll, of course ) but I'm too lazy to search
Then Old Friendship, A friend or three, or similar resources should be always playable at the council.

[Konrad Klar]

I'm lazy too, but not as lazy as you.

Annotation 1: A card is not in play until it is resolved in its chain of effects. When the
play of a card is declared, no elements of the card may be the target of actions
declared in the same chain of effects. An exception to this is a dice-rolling action, e.g.
a corruption check.

Annotation 2: A corruption check or any dice-rolling action can be targeted in the
chain of effects during which it was declared.

Something illusory similar to the rule ( ) mentioned by you. But its meaning is quite different. Serioulsy, if such rule would exist, then hazard player would play resources in response to cc caused by Ren The Unclean.

It is curious because CRF in the same chapter says:

Annotation 4: An action may not target a face-down card nor any element of a face
down card. Face down cards include unrevealed new site cards and on-guard cards.

Now I'm not sure how to interpret "include":
a) as "include XYZ, but is not limited to XYZ"
or
b) as "include XYZ (and nothing else)".

If a) then resources that affect only actual cc (but no number of CP) would be allowed and face-down cards other than new site cards and on-guard cards would be possible.
If b) then neither would be possible.

Or c) there is no consistecy here and meaning depends on mood of autors during writing one or other section of CRF.

P.S. Smells like off-topic and can be treated as such. I'm taking attention on that problem mainly because I like consistent rules and interpretations.

[Bandobras Took]

A player may play resource cards that can affect his characters' corruption checks made prior to the Free Council. Hazard cards may not be played.

How about resources that modify corruption check itself (i.e. dice-roll), like Old Friendship?

The rules specifically allow for resources to affect the corruption checks, i.e. the dice rolling action itself.

Also, since it says hazard cards may not be played, this includes Twilight. Whether played as a resource or hazard, it remains a hazard card.

[Konrad Klar]

So if Twilight was not revealed in result of Spying Out The Land it may not be played during spirit-magic using character's M/H phase as resource?

If so I wonder what is meaning of:

Card Erratum: Add "This card may be played at any time during any player's turn."
Can target a card that has not yet resolved. Can be played as a resource during your opponent's turn.

[Bandobras Took]

Spying out the land refers to hazards, not hazard cards. A hero player would reveal an agent due to Spying Out the Land, but an agent card is not a hazard card.

[Konrad Klar]

Ach so...
Spying Out The Land refers to hazards, not hazard cards. And opponent (as I understand) reveals hazards on his hand, not hazard cards.
There is no one word "card" in Spying Out The Land text.

Contrary to that
CRF, Turn Sequence, End-of-Game says:
"Only resources that directly affect corruption checks may be played during the Free Council. This includes cards that reduce a character's corruption point total or prevent a character from being discarded."

It first says about resources and then it says about cards.

And it is that difference and reason for which hazard card that can be played as resource or hazard may not be played at Audience (as resource)?

[Sauron]

You could not play GoM + Cock Crows during council.

This does not directly effect corruption, but does it passively.

You are not targeting the Corruption Check Roll or Corruption Total.

You are targeting a card, and removal of the card would then lower the corruption, it's a side effect.

[Konrad Klar]

You could not play GoM + Cock Crows during council.

You are speaking about combination of GoM + The Cock Crows, or about The Cock Crows in second use (if GoM is in play)?

You are not targeting the Corruption Check Roll or Corruption Total.

In second use The Cock Crows targets one of source of corruption, right - not Corruption Points Total, but which resource targets Corruption Points Total?
Even Free to Choose does not target Corruption Points Total?

Which cards mets conditions established by CRF, Turn Sequence, End-of-Game? Are such card existing in reality, or they are only theoretically possible?

[Sauron]

In second use The Cock Crows targets one of source of corruption, right - not Corruption Points Total, but which resource targets Corruption Points Total?
Even Free to Choose does not target Corruption Points Total?

Which cards mets conditions established by CRF, Turn Sequence, End-of-Game? Are such card existing in reality, or they are only theoretically possible?

In the second use of The Cock Crows targets a hazard perm event.

You would need something that directly effects the Corruption Points Total. I would need the wording on Free to Choose, I don't have it memorized so can't say one way or another.

ICE in their infinite wisdom put up all sorts of theoretically possible things. Like you can play river on a squatting company because there is the possibility they will move.

[Konrad Klar]

Playable on an item that normally gives 3 corruption points or more. Target item gives 2 fewer corruption points (3 fewer if Gates of Morning is in play). Discard after its bearer makes a corruption check. Cannot be duplicated on a given item. Frodo...free to choose... He took the Ring off his finger.-LotRII