The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards

The place to ask and debate all rules issues related to MECCG.
Post Reply
Bruce
Ex Council Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

The Under-roads wrote:The roll required for minions to move between adjacent Under-deeps sites is decreased by 3. Discards and prohibits the subsequent play of The Way is Shut.
(bold mine)

If a Fallen Wizard plays this card, do all his companies not containing orcs/trolls benefit from its effect?
User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 3109
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Since Fallen Wizard Companies are not minion companies (so far as I know), the modification to the number required does not affect them. However, preventing the way is shut does apply.
The game is flawed, but this does not mean it cannot be loved.
Wacho
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:51 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Actually that is not correct, Ben. Fallen-wizard companies that include an orc or troll are considered minion companies. See COE Digest #110.
User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 3109
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Thank you; I knew it had been discussed, but couldn't find a ruling.
The game is flawed, but this does not mean it cannot be loved.
User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 4354
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland

COE Digest #110 wrote:(7) Two questions regarding fallen wizard decks have arisen:
(a) When is a fallen wizard player's character considered hero, minion, or other?
(b) When is a fallen wizard player's company considered hero, minion, covert, overt, or other?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Characters can be:
(a) for a hero player
(i) hero
(b) for a minion player
(i) minion
(c) for a fw player
(i) hero (non-orcs non-trolls)
(ii) minion (orcs including half-orcs, trolls)
Companies can be:
(a) for a hero player
(i) hero
(b) for a minion player
(i) covert minion
(ii) overt minion
(c) for a fw player
(i) covert hero (companies with nothing making them overt)
(ii) overt
(1) non-minion (due to overt-making non-orc non-troll ally, Freeze the Flesh, or Cast from the Order)
(2) minion (due to presence of an orc, a troll, or a half-orc with other characters than only half-orcs and men)
Part regarding FW companies is doubtful.
CRF, Turn Sequence, Site Phase, Company vs. Company Combat wrote:@ Minion and hero companies can attack each other. Hero companies may not attack
each other. A Fallen Wizard covert company is considered a hero company.
Because quoted texts exists (and is valid only) in its context "A Fallen Wizard covert company is considered a hero company." should be read outside that context as "For purpose CvCC a Fallen Wizard covert company is considered a hero company". This means that outside CvCC covert non-hero FW companies may exist (Company with Orc is not hero, but at the same time Half-orc does make its company overt).
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
Bruce
Ex Council Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Tnx. I remembered something about a complicated taxonomy of all possible covert/overt/hero/minion/noncovert/nonovert attributes for companies controlled by a FW too, but couldn't find it. :)

My doubt stems from the fact that FW players can use Open to the Summons in lieu of a starting minor item (as an alternative to thrall of the voice) to play an agent (with mind 5 or less) in the starting company, although OttS says
Open to the Summons wrote:Playable on a minion company. One agent minion may be played with target company at a DarkhavenÑplace this card with the agent. -1 to his mind to a minimum of 1. This card may be played with a starting company in lieu of a minor item. When played as such, reveal it when starting companies are determined as if it were a character. Cannot be duplicated on a given character.
(bold mine)

Then I didn't know if the "minion" keyword limits the use of such a resource for a FW to orc/troll companies, or if its sole purpose is to limit the card's effect to the companies with the same alignment of the player, i.e. Under-roads would not benefit a hero player if played by a minion opponent, but can still be played by a FW and affect all of his companies.
User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 4354
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland

And it is a valid concern and at the same time reason for errata.
CRF, Errata (Cards), Open to the Summons wrote:Card Erratum: Replace "minion company" with "company." Does not allow you to
start with a character that says he cannot be in the starting company.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
Bruce
Ex Council Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Thanks, now everything is clear. :)
Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions & Debate (unofficial)”