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A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:24 am
by henrikbe
Hi,
It's clear from the text on Malady that it targets a character. According to the CRF, you cannot target an opponent's character with your resources. So, do we have an official ruling that states that Malady is not affected by this rule? I know card texts override general rules, but there's nothing in Malady's card text that says explicitly that it can target opponent's character. The only hint I found was the mentioning of hero character, but, with White Hand, that does not necessarily mean that the character must belong to the opponent...
Henrik
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:16 pm
by marcos
NetRep Rulings Digest #46 wrote:Even though the CRF states that "You cannot target an opponent's
character or resources with your own resources." , you must be able to
target an opposing character with Malady, right?
*** Since the card is a minion resource released two expansions before
ME:WH, and the card implicitly says that you may target a hero character
with it, A Malady Without Healing is an exception to the rules, and can
target an opponent's character. Also note that this doesn't restrict
you from playing A Malady Without Healing on your own characters.
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:16 pm
by Bandobras Took
I highly disagree with that ruling. Dark Minions was released before Lidless Eye, yet they knew before Lidless Eye that they were going to be using Minions in a non-agent fashion. That ruling is actually an erratum to the card and should have gone through the CoE.
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:31 am
by Konrad Klar
The one sure thing is that Fallen Wizard player may use it to eliminate its own (otherwise useless) hero characters and to gain Kill MP for them. It may be useful to correct the MPs balance (i.e. if in last turn player has more than half his MPs from characters). It is also some method to leverage a corruption cards played by opponent.
I agree with Bandobras here. NetRep Rulings Digest #46 is so poor as poor is text of A Malady without Healing. And I think also that phrase "at the same site as a shadow-magic using character" cannot be considered as description of target that replaces standard definition of possible legal targets. After all target described as "bearer of The One Ring at Mount Doom" does not allow to play the Cracks of Doom on opponent character. It only adds additional requirements to the target. So consistently: as long as description of target does not contradict with standard rules, the rule "the card supersedes the rule" is not applicable.
P.S.
Treason The Greatest Foe and (to the some extent) Spies Feared exposes the similar problem.
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:40 am
by henrikbe
Konrad Klar wrote:
P.S.
Treason The Greatest Foe and (to the some extent) Spies Feared exposes the similar problem.
How does Spies Feared have this same problem..???
I agree that Treason The Greatest Foe has this problem, though, but at least that card mentions "his player's unused general influence", a clear indication that that hero character may belong to another player, thus indicating that the card allows you to target another player's character.
The card text on Malady does not give such a clear indication. The only indication we have is that at the time of its release, a hero character would necessarily belong to another player. But is this indication strong enough for an official ruling? Can we know that ICE did not have the WH expansion in mind when they made this card?
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:44 am
by Bandobras Took
See my signature.
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:20 pm
by Konrad Klar
henrikbe wrote:How does Spies Feared have this same problem..???
To the some extent...
Rules from WH says that hero resource may not target/affect minion resource or site. So Spies Feared does not affect other verions of site.
And by "problem" I mean that it is not explicitly stated that affected object may be opponent's object (regardless of fact whather object is target or not).
If "his player" means "[potentially] your opponent" then OK - Treason The Greatest Foe is free from this problem.
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:33 pm
by Konrad Klar
Konrad Klar wrote:The one sure thing is that Fallen Wizard player may use it to eliminate its own (otherwise useless) hero characters and to gain Kill MP for them. It may be useful to correct the MPs balance (i.e. if in last turn player has more than half his MPs from characters). It is also some method to leverage a corruption cards played by opponent.
Above is incorrect.
CRF, Turn Sequence, End of Game wrote:You may not recieve kill MPs from a card you played.
P.S.
By years I was under impression that this rule sounds "You may not recieve kill MPs from
hazard you played".
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:50 pm
by Bandobras Took
Nice find. Would you consider the Hunt and the Great Hunt to give you kill MPs "from a card you played?"
Re: A Malady without Healing - why can it target opponent?
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:02 pm
by Konrad Klar
Creatures gives Kill MP, not The Hunt, or The Great Hunt.
EDIT:
...and eliminated characters gives Kill MP, not A Malady without Healing.
That is point.