Council of Elrond

Scenario

Hazard Player:
Face Up Agent A is at Site A (With Homesite B and C)
Company is at Site B

Resource Player:
Moves his Company from site D to Site B

Can the Hazad Player return Agent A to Site B while face up?

Relevant Rules from DM:
Agent Actions:
An agent may return to its home site (i.e., remove all of the site cards on the agent).

Moving an Agent (Agent Action)
When one of your agents moves, tap it and place its new site card on top of the agent and any other site cards already on the agent (face-up if the agent is face-up, face-down if the agent is face-down). If the agent is face-up, return to your location deck all site cards other than the new site card. Thus, the top site card on an agent indicates its current site.

Revealing an Agent
You may turn any of your face-down agents face-up (i.e., reveal them) at any time during your opponent's movement/hazard phase. This doesn't count as an agent action as outlined above and it doesn't count against the hazard limit. Alternatively, you must reveal an agent when it attacks, when it makes an influence attempt, or when certain cards are played.

If one of your agents is revealed before it has moved, you must immediately choose which home site it is at-place the appropriate site card with the agent. If you do not have such a site card in your location deck, discard the agent at the end of the current turn.

If one of your agents is revealed after it has moved, the first site card that was played must be one of its home sites or it must be in the same region as one of the agent's home sites or it must be in a region adjacent to a region that contains one of the agent's home sites. Any site card other than the first site card must be in the same region as the previous site placed on the agent or it must be in a region adjacent to the region that contains the previous site placed on the agent.

My analysis:
Since the Agent is already face up according to the moving agent rule to return to their homesite they would have to have the site card to play face up. Further more the rule: "If one of your agents is revealed before it has moved, you must immediately choose which home site it is at-place the appropriate site card with the agent. If you do not have such a site card in your location deck, discard the agent at the end of the current turn." Only would apply when the agent is revealed and hasn't moved. Since the agent is already face up by viture of not being at his homesite has moved this rule would not apply, so he would still need a site card. I'll try to do more analysis later.

Thoughts?

I've gotten responses from Mark Alfano, Konrad Klar, and Marcos.

Offhand, I'd say your analysis is correct as far as it goes. However, if you could manage two actions, you could unreveal the agent and send them back to home site no problem. If something then revealed them, it would be before they have moved from their home site and you could therefore reveal them at site B.

I agree if you had 2 agent actions you could do both actions of hide and return to homesite.

Literally face down agent that has been returned to his home site (i.e. all site cards on him have been discarded) is not agent in state "before it has moved". In its history he was moving.
So he cannot be revealed if its player does not have an appropriate site cards in Location Deck (and it leads to undefined situation if the agent is forced to be revealed, for example by Here Is a Snake!).

Other possibility is following regulation:
"agent that has no associated site card(s) is not considered the agent that has moved".

In context, I believe the phrase "before the agent has moved" is meant to convey "he is not at his home site." Admittedly, that is interpretation.

Ivic can move from Southron Oasis to Variag Camp and still be at his home site.

It is reason for which I wrote "agent that has no associated site card(s) is not considered the agent that has moved" rather than "agent thatis at his home site is not considered the agent that has moved".

It is not quite clear:

Dark Minions. Agent, Agent Actions wrote:• An agent may return to its home site (i.e., remove all of the site cards on the
agent).

Dark Minions. Agent wrote:• An agent is always located at a site. Once an agent has been revealed or has
moved to a site that is not one of its home sites, one of your site cards must be
used for this purpose. A face-up agent’s site card must always be face-up.

Underline mine.

So what? Moving to the home sites is governed by other rule (what rule?)?
If Ivic (face-up, or face down) moves from Southron Oasis to Variag Camp its player does not need to have Variag Camp in Location Deck?


To make things even more complicated:

CRF, Rulings by Term, Agent wrote:The rules on agent movement do not apply to revealed agents, since they refer to the
first site card played, which is discarded when the agent is revealed the first time.

which does not make sense (at least if it is read strictly).

Sauron wrote:My analysis:
Since the Agent is already face up according to the moving agent rule to return to their homesite they would have to have the site card to play face up. Further more the rule: "If one of your agents is revealed before it has moved, you must immediately choose which home site it is at-place the appropriate site card with the agent. If you do not have such a site card in your location deck, discard the agent at the end of the current turn." Only would apply when the agent is revealed and hasn't moved. Since the agent is already face up by viture of not being at his homesite has moved this rule would not apply, so he would still need a site card.

Looks good to me.