Council of Elrond

Problem appears when character starts corruption checks caused by Covetous Thoughts.

Character A has Covetous Thoughts, character B has, let's say, High Helm, and The Balance of Things is on the table.. When is time of corruption check we should calculate total what is safe for character A. In my opinion The Balance of Things doubles cp's only for character who controls the item, i thought its obvious. But below you have diggest no.18

diggest no18 wrote: "2. If Balance of Things is in play, are the cc's from Covetous Thoughts modified by the original cp of the item or the present (balance induced) cp of the item?
*** The cc's are modified by the present (balance induced) cp of the item."

I dont see any reason to play in this way. Look at this text

The Balance of Things wrote:Unique. Each character has the corruption points doubled for one of his sources of corruption (the player controlling the character chooses.)

It means controlling character has doubled points, not item gives doubled points.

And now we have text of last card

Covetous Thoughts wrote:Corruption. Playable only on a minion. At the end of each of his turns, target minion makes a corruption check for each item his company bears that he does not bear. For each check, modify the roll by subtracting the corruption of that item. During his organization phase, the minion may tap to attempt to remove this card by making a roll (drawing a #)-if the result is greater than 5, discard this card. Cannot be duplicated on a given minion.

For me "character has x cp's" (with one source) isnt the same "this source is worth x cp's".

So in example above i think character should make a cc in this way. 2cp's from CT and roll is modified -2 from High Helm.

It's admittedly a gray area, which is why the question was brought up in the first place.

"Each character has the corruption points doubled for one of his sources of corruption" could mean that it's only for that character, or it could mean that sources of corruption are doubled on a per character basis. They chose the latter interpretation.

Consider hero Arkenstone borne by a Dwarf. Covetous Thoughts will take it as 4 CPs, not 2, even though it's only 4 CPs if borne by a Dwarf. Not the exact same thing, but roughly parallel.

With The Balance of Things: Each character has the corruption points doubled for one of his sources of corruption.
Without The Balance of Things: Each character has the corruption points not doubled for any of his sources of corruption.
Right?

If we assume that sources of corruption gives CPs (doubled or not) only for characters that bear them (and generally they not give Corruption Points), then we could not substract anything from cc caused by Covetous Thoughts.
This logic is wrong. "Each character has..." does not automatically mean "...only for that character".

À propos Dwarves.
Durin's Axe gives 4MPs if held by Dwarf. Does it mean, that that 4MPs have only Dwarf bearer?
Or rather that Durin's Axe gives 4MPs in general if held by Dwarf?

Contrary to the Marshaling Points, the Corruption Points usually does matter only for its bearer. But Covetous Thoughts unusually makes reference to the CPs of items beared by other characters. And it does not refer to the normal amount of CPs that an item gives.

Bandobras Took wrote:
Consider hero Arkenstone borne by a Dwarf. Covetous Thoughts will take it as 4 CPs, not 2, even though it's only 4 CPs if borne by a Dwarf. Not the exact same thing, but roughly parallel.

Sorry but i cant agree with it. If Arkenstone is borne by dwarf, is worth 4cps, its obvious. But if not, then we modify roll only -2. Cps depend on situation on the table. But we cant compare it with The Balance of Things. There is written controlling character has doubled cps, not item (or other source) has doubled cps.

Konrad Klar wrote:This logic is wrong. "Each character has..." does not automatically mean "...only for that character".

I dont understand why wrong. Usually item/or another source of corruption affect one character, except some situations which are modified by cards like Greed, Lure of Expedience etc.

Muad'Dib wrote:There is written controlling character has doubled cps, not item (or other source) has doubled cps.

You're jumping to conclusions. It is possible to interpret Balance of Things that way, but it is not the only way to interpret balance of things.

Each character has the corruption points doubled for one of his sources of corruption.

Q: What is doubled?
A: Corruption points.

Q: Which corruption points are doubled?
A: One source of corruption per character.

You are viewing the phrase "Each character" as being the operative medium for the effect. It is simply a discriminator in the interpretation of the ruling.

It's also possible to interpret this card as not affecting female characters, for example, but they have also chosen not to interpret it that way.

So given that your interpretation is valid and that the ruling's interpretation is valid, why did they go with that one instead of yours?

I can't answer, but I can give you some possible answers:

* It makes more intuitive sense to treat it as doubled in all cases
* Balance of Things is a Unique hazard and meant to vicious. Compare with Many Sorrows Befall, News of Doom, etc.
* Both Balance of Things and Covetous Thoughts are easily countered by Voices of Malice or Corruption Helpers anyway.

Bandobras Took wrote: Q: What is doubled?
A: Corruption points.

Q: Which corruption points are doubled?
A: One source of corruption per character.

Variant of above for situation if The Balance of Things is not in play.

Q: What is not doubled?
A: Corruption points.

Q: Which corruption points are not doubled?
A: For any source of corruption.

Bonus questions for both situations (if The Balance of Things is, or is not in play).

Q: Who has corruption points for its sources of corruption?

A: [Fill this field yourself]

Q: Does above depend on fact whether corruption points are doubled, or are not doubled?

A: [Fill this field yourself]

EDIT:
Fixed some language errors.